Scheduling Cron Jobs

[ken4000]

Going back to the subject under discussion,  cron can be accessed by a tool such as gnome-schedule from the desktop if you are not comfortable with hand editing the files.  This function can be handled from a desktop login as I am not predicting that it would be a high traffic item. 

More of a set and forget thing would you agree?

I definitely won't install webmin just for doing cron. It's a simple feature that is easy to install and configure through a terminal. It would just be nice to have it in Zentyal for a quick overview and setup of cron jobs.

I'm a developer and I'm thinking of developing a simple interface for overview and setup cron scheduling jobs. But if someone is developing such a module, I won't start on it.
I can then after my implementation and test run, commit it or whatever is necessary so everybody can use it as a module. Would that be in anyone's interest or is it only me who needs it?

[BrettonWoods]

I don't think its just about cron jobs.

There are a raft of admin tasks that Zentyal misses. There are alternatives and there are many. What is missing is a common interface that we know. That was part of the success of M$ and often it wasn't because it was exceptional it was just the devil we know.

If anybody develops a module then to keep consistency which often has an effect on faith it will need to be supported.
Its great that somebody has said they will create a cron interface and I hope it is done.

Still that leaves a lot of need for other options.

Where I am going with this is that the Zentyal enterprise is already quite large and look at how many open source products it spans.
The OS source that makes Zentyal possible is alive because of diversity and reuse starting with the linux kernel to applications such as mysql.
It would be impossible to recreate everything as Zentyal.
Why not use the alternatives and the effort and the effect strong user bases have. Open source in isolation from other packages are weaker packages.
Also we have the option to run Zentyal headless and I don't think we can say desktop applications suit Zentyal admin anymore.

I just have to ask when will some key elements arrive in Zentyal.

Some of the things I browse are
Bootup and Shutdown
Here I can have a look what was supposed to start and what is running.
Great for reference
Disk and Network Filesystems
Great reference even has cgroups
Disk Quotas
Great reference
LDAP Client
Has the LDAP browser and I often use it. I just don't edit anything. Essential for me as sometimes users and disk permissions come out of sync.
LDAP Users and Groups
Great reference
Log File Rotation
Great reference
PAM Authentication
Shows you the internals, good for the admin noob
Running Processes
Great reference
Scheduled Cron Jobs
Use it often as I hate the CLI cron always confuses me.
System Logs
easy way to browse the logs

That is just the system section.

Then the servers
mysql and postgresql
postfix
ssh
apache
and others
some great tools others good for debugging and reference

Then the network
The firewall gives loads of good information to the sysadmin in a really concise presentation.

The list goes on.

Each item of webmin has a package and its very easy to configure.

I have to ask why installing webmin is any different to the zentyal web framework?

Why are we saying I will drink poison but I am not stupid enough to do it twice.

If the work has already been done why are we trying to do it again?

What is so scary or objectable about webmin or am I missing the point of web based frameworks with sudo root access system wide?

I don't mean to sound controversial but can someone tell me in anyway that zentyal is anymore secure than webmin.
Both of them are as long as they are deployed in the correct manner.

I still need webmin when I delete a user and add them again.
I still need webmin for my sql admin.

I don't want to install phpmyadmin as it just tacks itself as a directory on the http server under port 80
I don't want to install phpldapadmin because thats another separate admin console

whats so wrong with webmin?

deb http://download.webmin.com/download/repository sarge contrib
deb http://webmin.mirror.somersettechsolutions.co.uk/repository sarge contrib
You should also fetch and install my GPG key with which the repository is signed, with the commands :
cd /root
wget http://www.webmin.com/jcameron-key.asc
apt-key add jcameron-key.asc
You will now be able to install with the commands :
apt-get update
apt-get install webmin

Its exactly the same as you install zentyal on ubuntu

[half_life]

But what you are asking for begins to lose sight of Zentyals target market. Zentyal does not target the advanced technologist,  they target the business user who is not an IT specialist.  The addition of the headless option IMHO was a nod towards we technologists not their mark 1 mod 0 users.  Again IMHO the developers will spend time meeting the needs of their customers first.  The API is somewhat documented and there is a framework out there for a starting point.  If there are specific things you need,  I suggest you try your hand at writing it if it isn't going to benefit the Zentyal base customer.

I find that I am able to manage my servers with a combination of the web interface and an ssh connection.  I use 3rd party tools to make my job easier where it makes sense to.

I am trying not to sound arrogant (and failing miserably) but the fact remains that you and I do not contribute to their bottom line.  We use this great product at no cost ourselves.  The most we offer giving of our free time providing advice and support to the people who are contributing to the bottom line.

I have no expectations that they will respond to any tertiary demand I place on them.

[BrettonWoods]

Its ok Halflife and it didn't sound arrogant it just sounds like you don't like webmin. Its hard not to sound arrogant when arguing your opinion, I gave up on that one. Please its just an opinion I believe in strongly.

If you look at the forums its full of requests to do exactly what webmin does. I am not requesting anything from Zentyal. I don't want to add any more support requirements. I am saying, use webmin because its is a third party package and it absolves zentyal of any liability and support.

Neru announced that he might continue the LTSP module in a PPA. This is great and bringing in other modules and other packages into the Zentyal eneterprise makes for a stronger product.

My argument is that I don't understand the arguments against.

Is zentyal any more secure than webmin?

Does webmin affect zentyal on its install?

Does webmin provide a load of admin tools in one easy accessible place?

There are loads of arguments being thrown at this that don't make sense.

Say the last post you made where Zentyal does not target the advanced technologist. Then you suggest zentyal webadmin and the cli is enough to mange your server? This would seem to suggest you are saying don't use a web framework use the CLI whilst the whole point of webmin is to make that easier.

The headless argument also doesn't make sense. M$ runs headless now but it has nothing to do with technologists. For years the IT arena has been criticizing the security flaw and resource waste that a server desktop introduces.
That is one thing that has had my head spinning and it doesn't mean its unsafe its just you need to be careful.
You just have to balance the positive and negatives so that you have your system of choice.
We have a server with a desktop with all those extra libs that are not required to run as a server.
We have a web framework that runs under sudo root privileges.
I don't mean to criticise or say Zentyal isn't secure but saying webmin is any worse just doesn't stack up. Just absolutely untrue.

Zentyal is missing a few key admin tools and I just need to point to the forum to make a point.
Zentyal is a SMB server that can scale quite well and is a superb replacement for M$ SBS.
Why is Zentyal aimed at such a narrow target, personally I don't believe it is.
It has a huge scope from the tech savvy business user to advanced sysadmins who want a very quick way to set up a very strong server system.
Also the idea that someone with no IT experience is going to install and run a business's IT infrastructure is just ludicrous.

I have to say half_life and I apologise but that last post was one of the most contradictory, blind and pointless posts I have seen for a while.

Starts with defining Zentyal into a really small niche market. Says it for non tech savvy business men. Then jumps to the level of developers (developers in the SMB?). Then from basic level jumps to using an API. Then says have a go at writing something when my main argument is don't re-invent the wheel reuse other packages. Then suggest the cli is enough which goes against the whole argument of why we have a web framework.

If you just don't like webmin just say so.

 
Also when it comes to tertiary demands you couldn't be further from the truth. Its a forum its opinion and that is mine as a zentyal sysadmin. Anyone should be able to state there opinion some might gather moss others momentum. Its about idea sharing.

[half_life]

You are entitled to your opinions as am I.  Please stop telling me what my opinions are though.  You are spending quite a bit of time arguing in favor of the opinion of adding webmin to Zentyal.  Please feel free to just go do so.  Let the world know how it works for you. 

We, however are done conversing since I am contradictory and apparently don't know what I am talking about.  As I have already pointed out "we give of our free time". 

Good luck. 

[christian]

half_life: I fully share and support your view 

Webmin can definitely be installed.
Thus users wiling to use it can deploy it if they are convinced this safe enough.

[BrettonWoods]

I don't think or said, that you don't know what you are talking about.

All I merely did was point at, that a post was contradictory. I answered questions but never received an answer to my questions.

So hopefully I haven't offended. Argument and opinion is essential as there is no black and white.

As for webmin I have a cron editor and a host of other tools and it works really well.

My opinion in terms of security is anybody presenting the zentyal webadmin or webmin externally is asking for trouble.

The VPN solution on offer is superb and having the two latter locked down to local lans is an extremely important fundemental.

I guess my passion for open source and the ubuntu universe boils over. Larger user groups means stronger products.

That is why I believe the use of webmin adds to zentyal and also adds to webmin.

The reuse of existing packages that don't affect or require zentyal customisation are a blessing in my book.

Packages that isolate themselves are weaker packages and that was all I was trying to point out.

It was a general post about the question of whats the big deal about webmin.
If you look at the general claims and compare various server admin consoles then I feel a lot of those claims are urban legends.

Use webmin its great, but use with care.

I can't see why that is a problem?

PS I have changed my email somehow I am locked out of my yahoo account (lost my phone and wants that for confirmation)