Zentyal Forum, Linux Small Business Server

News and Announcements => News and Announcements => Topic started by: J. A. Calvo on April 17, 2014, 03:50:55 pm

Title: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: J. A. Calvo on April 17, 2014, 03:50:55 pm
Hi all,

The roadmap for the next Zentyal Community Edition (3.5) has been published at: http://www.zentyal.org/roadmap/zentyal-3-5-roadmap/

This release will continue focusing on offering improved Microsoft Active Directory® and Microsoft® Exchange Server replacement. The main highlights are:
Also, the following modules are going to be moved to the contrib section:
Regarding the removal of OpenLDAP synchronization, the goal of Zentyal is to offer native replacement for Microsoft Active Directory and for this end, the only real choice is Samba4. Moreover, the decision is supported by the fact that OpenLDAP and Samba4 are very complicated to maintain simultaneously and having both for directory service is causing most of the directory issues.

As to Zarafa module removal, Zentyal aims at offering a native replacement for Microsoft Exchange and the only existing technology to achieve this is OpenChange. Zentyal was willing to continue shipping both OpenChange and Zarafa so that the users could choose, but after Zarafa BV decided to discontinue partnership with Zentyal S.L., it doesn't make any sense to continue shipping this component without the support of the official development team. On the other hand, OpenChange and Zarafa are incompatible systems and Zarafa's Community Edition limits the number of Outlook users to 3 users.

Regarding the removal of the L7 Filter module, this was motivated by the fact that the l7filter package is not being maintained by upstream and does not work properly (it causes false positives that have had impact in some deployments). On the other hand, FTP module was removed because the File Sharing functionality is already covered by Samba in a much more complete way than our limited FTP implementation.

These modules will continue being supported in the existing Zentyal Server versions until their end of life. Of course, community members interesting in maintaining them will be warmly welcome.

We will shortly announce the availability of the Zentyal 3.5 Daily Builds, allowing you to test them and give feedback as soon as possible. We'll let you know when you can join the testing effort.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on April 17, 2014, 05:46:18 pm
Remove synchronization with OpenLDAP, Samba4 as main directory service.

Super news about the great S4Stink debacle.

Apart from a little heartbleed the vpn package and they way it is auto configured with a currently configured Zentyal server is just really great and really handy for pushing out to clients easily.

Any of you guys been playing with SSSD and Linux AD authentication?

It would be great if something was available similar for Linux client configuration. Just a batch script that in a browser download, sudo sh and done... ?

Anyone got any Zentyal Lab spare time to give it some thought?



Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: estebanldu on April 18, 2014, 03:01:53 am
Lo unico que espero es que en algun momento vuelvan a implementar el modulo voip con Asterisk
Saludos
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: Escorpiom on April 18, 2014, 04:59:56 am
Indeed, the decision to move away from OpenLDAP sync is a very good one.
Not so happy with Zentyal dropping more modules, but reading above explanation it seems inevitable.
Generally, I feel Zentyal is moving away from the all-in-one-box solution. That was for me the reason to jump on.
It's getting more and more difficult for me to switch to a more recent version with all the goodies removed.

Cheers. 
 
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on April 18, 2014, 06:19:04 am
I totally agree as its mixed feelings.

I can totally understand the need to simplify and reduce the support complexity of Zentyal.

I have been the source of much controversy and a big pusher to drop S4sync.

The thing is I don't think you need to drop modules to reduce the complexity of Zentyal.

The main problem is the focus of the "Box" and the idea of the box is a little long in the tooth with the current market.

It shouldn't be box it should be container or VM or several boxes. Hardware is cheap, support is not.

I am a big fan of LXC because of its low resources but it could be a full hypervisor such as KVM.

If zentyal had a base network layer that supported virtualisation where a box is partitioned into containers then all these problems with complexity would vanish.

I have been playing with the Samba4 binaries because I was very aware of the loading and employment of the Zentyal design caused many problems.

Personally I think it is design and much can be done with the Base networking and Samba4.

Still we are stuck with a full Bind9 implementation and the purpose built internal DNS of Samba is left out in the cold that only provides disadvantages.

Going back to our Eric :)
Quote
Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more to take away. (Attributed to Antoine de Saint-Exupéry)

We already have a DNS server installed, the one we use is purely a legacy consideration as Zentyal has reused what they had.

The replication of the internal Samba4 DNS works 100%, tried tested and done on my test bed sourceforge project  http://sourceforge.net/projects/samba4all/

The only thing that I am finding is that with 4.1.6 and server side copies is that disk permission problems start to occur.

I am waiting a couple of days for the new 4.1.7 binaries and I will be pushing another rake of Virtualbox OVA's for Debian and Ubuntu (14.04) being quite important.

They are only for demonstration as they are not automated in the way Zentyal is, for production use you will have to get down to the dirty CLI.

What they do demonstrate is how light Samba4 is and how it makes User/Group and DNS replication childs play.
Samba4 makes it very easy to federate servers of specific function whilst keeping to the structure of domain security.

With virtualisation LXC or KVM I can partition complexity into containers so that simplicity is gained without any loss of function. Or simply split the functionality over a couple of low cost pieces of hardware.

The arguments with OpenLdap, S4sync, Split DNS and various others have saddened me slightly as they became very polarised into yes and no camps and it got very personal and full of individual agenda's.
What saddened me was I always thought it was very possible to support all. It still is and could be if there was some form of open discussion, but apparently that is not part of opensource.

I still feel a standard LDAP can be coupled to samba4 as a proxy and provide everything the 2.0 series had.

I believe Asterisk can be brought back online and various modules could remain and be supported.
I have said it before, that a modular product such as Zentyal is losing revenue by being forced into a monolithic support option.

There is no feedback to what is of worth to the community with a monolithic offering. Its an insurance farce where for many of us smaller more tailored systems would return more value.
The current commercial support subscriptions forces me to use Zentyal as an All-In-One which is something I will never do.
The result of this is that I am starting to use Zentyal less and less.

My servers don't have the simple common web admin console which is a real shame. I have them separated into area's of common functionality.
Gateway, Web and Email, File server is my basic three server setup nowadays. It makes the install and configuration much easier.
They are still on the same box but by being in containers they are isolated and much stronger for it.

Again I have been saddened at this polarised argument that seems to be short sighted greed that I am trying to get things for less. Whilst my argument has been the opposite and about increasing adoption and about more.

Both in infrastructure and subscriptions making things modular would only increase stability and revenue.

Maybe one day :)
 
     
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: CNServices on April 18, 2014, 06:31:30 pm
Regarding the removal of OpenLDAP synchronization, the goal of Zentyal is to offer native replacement for Microsoft Active Directory and for this end, the only real choice is Samba4. Moreover, the decision is supported by the fact that OpenLDAP and Samba4 are very complicated to maintain simultaneously and having both for directory service is causing most of the directory issues.

What will this mean, if anything, to users not wanting to share files out at the network perimeter? Will Zentyal work seamlessly with other file sharing devices and/or software on the network?
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: J. A. Calvo on April 18, 2014, 08:40:02 pm
What will this mean, if anything, to users not wanting to share files out at the network perimeter? Will Zentyal work seamlessly with other file sharing devices and/or software on the network?

File Sharing won't change. What we are doing is just simplify the architecture, having a single LDAP/Active Directory server (Samba4 implementation) instead of having two like we have now (OpenLDAP + Samba4) keeping them synchronized. Basically what this will mean for Zentyal users is: less issues.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: CNServices on April 18, 2014, 08:45:10 pm
Basically what this will mean for Zentyal users is: less issues.

Perfect. Thank you.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: -pekr- on April 20, 2014, 05:03:14 pm
Sorry for amateur question, but I don't understand the removal of FTP module. Does it mean, that we will be no longer able to upload files via FTP? E.g. for a webserver purpose?

Thanks,
Petr
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: robb on April 20, 2014, 05:16:02 pm
I never used FTP to transfer files. I found it a lot more convenient to use SSH/Terminal to copy/move files. And if you are busy on the server itself, you can pull in files through other ways as well.

Btw, not having an FTP module doesn't mean you can' t install FTP server software on a Zentyal server.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on April 20, 2014, 05:21:12 pm
There are some web apps that rely on FTP, so dunno on that one.

I rarely use FTP but I am unsure how a SSH/terminal makes it easy.

When it comes to my web apps remotely I use webmin as the file manager makes things very easy.

http://www.webmin.com/deb.html
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: J. A. Calvo on April 20, 2014, 06:43:10 pm
Btw, not having an FTP module doesn't mean you can' t install FTP server software on a Zentyal server.

Exactly, and it's very well documented :)

https://help.ubuntu.com/14.04/serverguide/ftp-server.html
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: -pekr- on April 20, 2014, 07:30:39 pm
In the past I was really glad I found some fine distro with web panel, not being a Linux guru and being able to delegate some easy tasks as adding new users, to other ppl. Zentyal fitted the bill, well, almost - it still lacked in the area of aesy creation and configuration of websites / virtual domains. It did not even allowed to define custome Apache config for virtual domains. All what was needed was just one text area in user interface. My feature request was added to the list of possible future enhancements.

Coming back after one year, my impression is, that Zentyal is moving away from being a good option for ISPs, and that is imo a pity. Reading documentation suggests, my above request is still not there and removing FTP server from default distro nails it even more clearly.

I simply don't believe any second, that FTP messes with other directory services and I find the decision to remove the FTP service being really stupid. Sorry, but not willing to use any nonsense like SSH file transfers for something so basic, as is upload of webpages via FTP service. Worked well for ages.

Maybe once again a time to find a different distro, which better fits ISP needs.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on April 20, 2014, 07:40:51 pm
Have a look at http://www.ispconfig.org/page/home.html. I haven't used it, but it crops up a lot and seems to get good reviews.

I think that might be the reason FTP has been removed. As it is really a different product.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: KarlMCS on April 29, 2014, 04:51:22 pm
Btw, not having an FTP module doesn't mean you can' t install FTP server software on a Zentyal server.

Exactly, and it's very well documented :)

https://help.ubuntu.com/14.04/serverguide/ftp-server.html

I shouldn't have to get on the console to install and configure FTP.  That was the whole point of Zentyal; the box that does it all without me setting it up by hand.

They should be enhancing the FTP module instead of removing it.  The vsftpd module can't have taken a lot of resources to maintain.  This is removal of a useful feature, plain and simple.

On the other hand, FTP module was removed because the File Sharing functionality is already covered by Samba in a much more complete way than our limited FTP implementation.

I'll put this out there too, and I know not everyone will agree with me on this, but I value the choice of which protocols are readily available, even if I don't use them all simultaneously.  I do currently use FTP and not Samba on my main Zentyal server.  "We think you should use this protocol, so this other one is going bye-bye" is a very Microsoft/Apple way of thinking that doesn't befit a Linux distro.  Making an open replacement for Active Directory and Exchange is a noble goal... Just don't lose sight of your values in the process.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: pe.vilain on April 29, 2014, 05:26:00 pm


I shouldn't have to get on the console to install and configure FTP.  That was the whole point of Zentyal; the box that does it all without me setting it up by hand.

They should be enhancing the FTP module instead of removing it.  The vsftpd module can't have taken a lot of resources to maintain.  This is removal of a useful feature, plain and simple.

On the other hand, FTP module was removed because the File Sharing functionality is already covered by Samba in a much more complete way than our limited FTP implementation.

I'll put this out there too, and I know not everyone will agree with me on this, but I value the choice of which protocols are readily available, even if I don't use them all simultaneously.  I do currently use FTP and not Samba on my main Zentyal server.  "We think you should use this protocol, so this other one is going bye-bye" is a very Microsoft/Apple way of thinking that doesn't befit a Linux distro.  Making an open replacement for Active Directory and Exchange is a noble goal... Just don't lose sight of your values in the process.

I pretty think in the same way.

Perhaps I make a mistake but FTP and samba are not designed for the same purpose.

When you have to access remotelly to different servers at the same public IP, FTP is much more flexible no ?

or perhaps a new module like owncloud will be add to make it easier to access file remotely ?


Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: savaj on April 29, 2014, 05:33:56 pm
Does this mean that Zentyal 3.5 will not have LDAP support?
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on April 29, 2014, 08:37:28 pm
It will have a Samba4 Ldap. Singular that will need an open source application such as Samba4 to make an extensible solution.

Bit of bad medicine to make a remedy, something that I am really excited to see a unified solution too.

Ps if you are quick join the samba4 mailing list. I have no idea if I am correct but I am arguing for a link between phpldapadmin and samba4.

Opensource in isolation from other opensource is weaker opensource.

Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: jammin on April 30, 2014, 04:12:22 am
with the removal of openldap support, what happens to ldap ssh type logins, will this still work via the samba ldap ???
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: J. A. Calvo on May 02, 2014, 03:10:26 pm
Yes, samba also implements LDAP protocol, so it will work all the same. We're just reducing the complexity of having two systems synchornized providing the same, leaving only one of them (the more complete in functionality, which is Samba).
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: J. A. Calvo on May 02, 2014, 03:16:52 pm
I'll put this out there too, and I know not everyone will agree with me on this, but I value the choice of which protocols are readily available, even if I don't use them all simultaneously.  I do currently use FTP and not Samba on my main Zentyal server.  "We think you should use this protocol, so this other one is going bye-bye" is a very Microsoft/Apple way of thinking that doesn't befit a Linux distro.  Making an open replacement for Active Directory and Exchange is a noble goal... Just don't lose sight of your values in the process.

The thing is that if you want to keep using FTP, you can (Zentyal is based on Ubuntu so the same things still apply):

https://help.ubuntu.com/14.04/serverguide/ftp-server.html

And also don't forget that we will be really happy if anyone from the community volunteers for maintaining the zentyal-ftp module for the forthcoming versions (the code won't be deleted, it's just moved to the contrib section of our Git repo instead of being in main). The thing is we need to focus our resources in providing this Active Directory and Exchange replacement, so we can't keep maintaining as much modules as we did in the past with the "all-in-one" focus.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on May 02, 2014, 10:58:47 pm
Personally I completely understand it. Get the engine and the chassis right and the bodywork can be done afterwards.

There is a lot riding on the 3.5 > 4.0 transition and I hope you guys get it right.

Anyone struggling with a straight ubuntu FTP install then post and I will see what I can do.

Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: HyperionTech on May 04, 2014, 10:45:42 pm
I really wish that L7 Development would be picked back up, I personally utilize Zentyal for it's Captive Portal coupled with the L7 Filter, it makes a wonderful Wireless Control System.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: eckeagle on June 06, 2014, 09:03:53 pm
Hi

I see in the roadmap you remove the user'corner for the problem of dependancy.

I will' like to known thisi mobules will adapt in the future version of zentyal? or include in the webmail interface?

I ask this question because i use it for configuring "mail retrieve the mail from external accounts" (fetchmail)


Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: xpendable on June 19, 2014, 07:55:02 pm
Personally I would like to see the L7 Filters be kept, I mean it's simply a module right now anyway. For the people that don't want to use it, simply don't install the module... right?

The L7 Filters have been picked back up for development by the ClearFoundation: http://l7-filter.clearfoundation.com/ (http://l7-filter.clearfoundation.com/)
The development on it is slow and the protocols are still yet to be re-vamped.

However the L7 Filter for some is an essential part of the OS as some of us like my self use this server as a gateway server for the rest of the devices on the network. QoS is an essential feature of any router these days and even the current implementations of DD-WRT/OpenWRT and Tomato router firmware replacements all still use these old L7 Filters.

So why not just leave the module in the package and allow the users to use it if they want to? It can't be that much more work to simply maintain the module with the new distro/zentyal versions is it?

EDIT:
Uh, just noticed Bandwidth Monitor module is being removed too, along with User Corner & Captive Portal. I don't use the last two my self, just don't really understand the need to be remove any of these modules really. These are all modules and are part of the reason that make zentyal great. You can install the modules that you want and not install the ones you don't. I was also disappointed when the Thin-Client module was removed back in v3.1 was it? That was a nice feature as well, seems like I'll be sticking with Zentyal v3.3 until the end of support for 12.04 LTS.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on June 19, 2014, 08:59:44 pm
I think the whole point of 3.5 wasn't to drop modules but purely to focus on a core and make it rock solid.

I don't think it might be the end for these modules but just at this time the Devs seem to be correctly focussing on a slimmer Zentyal.

I don't want them to add any further complexity until we get that stable core which I am sure is possible.

I guess its up to the community to maybe support some of the shavings.

I really wish Zentyal instead of trying to supply all modules or get the community to start development would choose a much easier route.

Make the webadmin interface customisable, with a menu and form editor. It is too close to 3.5 now but I really wish someone would carry this idea as many have mentioned it.
 



 
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: Escorpiom on June 20, 2014, 03:52:08 am
Obviously I don't agree with removing stuff, it will make sense if you look at the bigger picture:
Ebox started out as an all-in-one Linux box and a lot of people (including me) jumped on that bandwagon.

Several years later, Zentyal takes another route, the "drop in replacement" for MS Small Business Server.
First I was trying to move away from MS solutions, but hey, now I have to be compatible again?
I never liked that route and I still don't like it.
Christian also didn't like it.
While Zentyal today still offers some of the goodies I need, I might eventually have to look for another distro if this MS stuff gets too serious.
There are a lot of other projects that do have a rich feature set, even supporting IPv6.   

Modules moved to contrib - You might as well declare them deceased. I haven't got the skills to maintain any of them and I think that goes for the bulk of our community.

Cheers.

   

Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: snoopy1337 on June 20, 2014, 01:30:01 pm
Hi everybody,

just read about the upcoming Zentyal 3.5 based on 14.04 LTS.

A few months ago I tried out Zentyal 3.4 (13.10) and noticed the missing of Zarafa. I could understand that 3.4 couldn't include Zarafa as this only is compatible with Ubuntus LTS Versions. So I hoped Zarafa will be back with the next Zentyal which is based on the next LTS - Ubuntu.

Now I read that 3.5 will drop Zarafa, too and include OpenChange. Seriously??

I'm running several Small Business Sites with Zentyal + Zarafa, the most with Zentyal 3.3 .

This leads me to these questions:

1) Is Zarafa really completely dropped from Zentyal and will never come back?
2) Or could one choose between Zarafa and OpenChange?
3) If there is no choose: Does OpenChange have the same features as Zarafa?
4) If there is no choose: Will there be a "How - To Migrate Zarafa Mailboxes/Calendars/Contacts/Users a.s.o. to OpenChange?"

I'm really not lucky with these trends and I seriously think about completely dropping Zentyal as it drops (for me) one of the best modules...

Greetings

Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: robb on June 20, 2014, 05:38:19 pm
1) Yes, Zarafa is dropped completely
2) No, as of 3.4 there is no option to choose Zarafa anymore.
3) _Theoreticly_ OpenChange has more features than Zarafa and there is no extra license fee for outlook connectors since OpenChange natively supports the MAPI protocol.
4) We would love to see a documented migration path for Zarafa to OpenChange. I hope the devs in Zaragoza have the time to make a solid howto and/or migration script for this.

IMO the biggest catch is that openchange just isn't stable yet. Although they are working very hard on OpenChange development, I really think it is too soon to drop Zarafa, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on June 20, 2014, 06:00:35 pm
I really like the idea of Openchange and I don't actually see this as a M$ solution.

Windows is still totally dominant as a desktop, which finally is being chipped away.
I have argued this before and that one line was the whole crux of the matter.

That dominance for many dictated the need for M$ servers if you wanted AD and group policy control.
Deliberately after XP UAC and batch script permission elevation needs made windows clients windows server junkies.

Christian was brilliant with networks but got rather upset when I called him a hobbyist.
He also used the Home version as his desktop in conjunction with Zentyal, which apart from licensing issues I just wouldn't be able to get away with it with the nature of my clients.
Its not me but my clients would of definitely viewed Windows Home in there business as unprofessional, irrespective of being right or wrong.

I used Zentyal with XP and a NT4 style samba domain then M$ started to deliberately kill that and force Active Directory.
That is why we had the biggerst IT European antitrust case ever http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case

Why some people still argue there wasn't and isn't a need to provide Opensource interoperable server systems to allow a toehold in the desktop dominance of Microsoft is beyond me.

Generally we had become M$ junkies and MSSQL, Exchange and Windows Server started to be an exclusive party.

I never understood the mindset because the way things where set out Microsoft was deliberately excluding non Microsoft technologies.

Samba4 is the only Opensource interoperable system that will allow this. We have the whole 3.0 series with a myriad of error's surrounding S4Sync because there is not direct translation between the two.

Then the community went through a stage of deliberate miss-information, deliberate denial and a refusal to discuss the problems openly.

Without doubt it was ill advised, detrimental to the project and extremely hobbyist, but that is just my opinion.

Samba4 is the only seamless solution for authentication and interoperability in current heterogeneous IT desktop environs.

So S4Sync got dropped and the potential bad design of two LDAP's has been rectified and we move into another LTS.

The whole BETA nature of Samba4 and its implementation took up the complete life-cycle of Ubuntu 12.04  LTS.

I think Samba has bedded down into a stable and secure product and generally its on its way to being a success.

Openchange which is also another huge undertaking has me worried purely because it is another BETA and if I have to wait to 16.04, I don't have to say anything...

Openchange and High Availibillity should be modules of Zentyal, which in essence they are. Many stipulations and needs are creeping in to the base system to accommodate the previous two and that shouldn't be the case.

I agree with Escorpiom "(some modules moved to Contrib)" who wants to be bothered with the upkeep and packaging.

I can't understand for the life in me when this has been proposed time and time again by not just me, we have so much reticence to making simple customizations to Zentyal.
Why we don't have a simple menu and form editor in Zentyal so that community scripts and modules can really take off without the need for packaging is beyond me.

Actually I fear the rationale is purely short sighted control with a belief that things need to always be branded with the Zentyal branding. I am suprised we don't see logo's 'Powered by' :)

Also going back to the all-in-one Linux box why did they kill the 2.0 series?

The 2.0 series was perfect for Linux only solutions which are still very valid.
We will have a 4.0 series that is based on M$ directory services on an open platform.

The 3.0 series where Zentyal totally ignored its community and users irrespective of which camp the sat in and continued blindly with 3.0

Its been really strange as my search for the M$ replacement because of my own dislikes to EOL and forced obsolescence.
Being bullied into adoption and dropping of technologies on a whim and having to deal with this omnipotent, god like entity provider of all IT.

The strange bit is that actually Zentyal are probably worse than M$ not just in the products but the manner they employ them and treat there users.

PS I was writing this before Robb posted, the Openchange Beta is a huge problem on an already battered and bruised community.


 
 

 
 
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: snoopy1337 on June 20, 2014, 06:20:25 pm
1) Yes, Zarafa is dropped completely
2) No, as of 3.4 there is no option to choose Zarafa anymore.
Sad to hear that, as Zarafa - IMHO - is a very good and stable Groupware Solution, esp. in conjunction with z-push it works like a charm.

3) _Theoreticly_ OpenChange has more features than Zarafa and there is no extra license fee for outlook connectors since OpenChange natively supports the MAPI protocol.
As u said... theoreticaly... I took a look at OpenChange (WebMail) in Zentyal 3.5 and my first thought was: What a huge Back-Step!

4) We would love to see a documented migration path for Zarafa to OpenChange. I hope the devs in Zaragoza have the time to make a solid howto and/or migration script for this.
Thats annoying... this would be a big show stopper for many Zentyal Users in Upgrading / Migrating I think. I couldn't imagine that there are just a few users having Zarafa running in Zentyal. And if there is even no migration path...

IMO the biggest catch is that openchange just isn't stable yet. Although they are working very hard on OpenChange development, I really think it is too soon to drop Zarafa, but that's just my opinion.

I'm absolutely with u in saying that it is much too early to completely replace Zarafa with OpenChange; just installed/tested Zentyal 3.5 for a few minutes and came accross several Bugs (ActiveSync doesn't seem to work, IMAP Login with non-Outlook doesn't work) and created some tickets.

What about all those who don't need the Outlook/MAPI stuff but just a Groupware at all and use completely free software? I think, having the choose in using Zarafa or OpenChange should be the better way as Zarafa (esp. with Z-Push) in Zentyal worked just fine and stable for several years now.

So I think, 3.3 will be the last Zentyal I use and I will completely switch to another SBS Solution like ClearOS...
There the Zarafa Community Edition "App" costs 10$ but that could be good invested capital I hope. At a first glance, this System seems to be more stable at all...
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on June 20, 2014, 07:46:44 pm
Not really sure what is happening with Zarafa.

Part of the 3.4 problem was with it not being an LTS and no Zarafa releases.

http://download.zarafa.com/community/beta/7.1/7.1.10rc1-44973/zcp-7.1.10rc1-44973-ubuntu-14.04-x86_64-free.tar.gz
http://download.zarafa.com/community/beta/7.1/7.1.10rc1-44973/zcp-7.1.10rc1-44973-ubuntu-14.04-x86_64-opensource.tar.gz

This is not true any more but we are still waiting for it to pass RC1

Actually wrong link there is one

http://download.zarafa.com/community/final/7.1/7.1.10-44973/zcp-7.1.10-44973-ubuntu-14.04-x86_64-free.tar.gz
http://download.zarafa.com/community/final/7.1/7.1.10-44973/zcp-7.1.10-44973-ubuntu-14.04-x86_64-opensource.tar.gz

So dunno?  !

Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: robb on June 20, 2014, 08:56:02 pm
It is stated clearly that Zarafa has been dropped (in favor of OpenChange):
http://www.zentyal.org/roadmap/zentyal-3-5-roadmap/

I do hope, there will be an alternative for usercorner. It is quite convenient to let users be able to change their password themselves.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on June 20, 2014, 11:33:05 pm
Exactly my point to why? Openchange isn't stable like you admit.

IMO the biggest catch is that openchange just isn't stable yet. Although they are working very hard on OpenChange development, I really think it is too soon to drop Zarafa, but that's just my opinion.

3.4 being a non LTS release meant no Zarafa.

I am questioning the drop in 3.5 as unlike 3.4 there is a 14.04 version available.

We have the standard mail services and roundcube (Doesnt really provide enough for many of us), but like I say I dunno if the community is prepared for another Beta session for 3 years.

Just an opinion.

Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: half_life on June 21, 2014, 07:19:32 pm
For me, dropping Zarafa means that I will not be updating beyond 3.3 until such time as the Openchange server is up to snuff.  Thankfully I no longer am supporting Zentyal in a commercial environment because the clock would be ticking to work out an upgrade path.  At least with Zarafa you could disable password checking and use imapcopy to transfer between servers. 

I am worried that the many installs out there with large email user bases will abandon Zentyal to avoid having to continually struggle with this. Remember, it wasn't so long ago that we had to re-install because there was no upgrade path.  Many struggled to port their email over.
Title: Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
Post by: StuartNaylor on June 21, 2014, 10:10:14 pm
Half_Life I am going to give the Zarafa install a go and write up a community howto.

I guess I will have to get my head round the samba-authentications modes with Zarafa.

I am sure when it comes to a choice of Zarafa or Openchange then it will install. I will give it a go anyway.

I understand that both will not sit happily together because of dependencies but that is no problem as why would I need both?

Prob make some scripts that make this really easy.

I really don't want to have to go through the learning curve or the effort of maintaining a Zarafa Zentyal package.

It would make things so easy if Zentyal was customisable just give us a menu editor and form editor.

I say this as having to manage and install packages just to install something on zentyal is just a crazy amount of overhead for what is needed.

I will start a new thread Zarafa & Zentyal 3.5 any input will be most welcome.