Zentyal Forum, Linux Small Business Server

Zentyal Server => Installation and Upgrades => Topic started by: qsnap on September 20, 2013, 03:12:15 pm

Title: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: qsnap on September 20, 2013, 03:12:15 pm
Hi guys,
I actually been suggested zentyal by spiceworks members, so i am trying to find some answers here.

BG- Our office is about of 25 peoples and we have old SBS 2003 server with exchange 2003 running and ubuntu linux server with mysql server running in domain.

So with zentyal which is based on ubuntu handling emails with mail server (importing from exchange 2003 database is it possible?) and running mysql server on same machine. Is linux server handles emails like exchange with same features and how good is zentyal server with troubleshooting.

In my view linux would be hard to manage than ms server 2011 ??
Please have your views on this.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: stc on September 21, 2013, 06:39:21 pm
I'm fairly new to Zentyal however I have been an Ubuntu server user for a bit. I must admit that Zentyal IMHO takes a great load off when setting up an ubuntu server and saves a lot of time in configuring. Preloaded with things like samba4 and must have server apps, LXDE gui and admin console most settings are there in a nice neat configuration/admin console as opposed having to download and configure apps through editing .conf files etc.

I am in the process of moving from MS to Linux both servers and clients and so far things are not difficult in any way. Both MS server and Zentyal are running along side each other causing no conflict allowing a smooth switch over.

As to email/exchange type server I think you have some options depending on what exactly it is you are looking for. Zentyal comes with Zarafa (which can be expanded at cost) but other options to name only a few are Zimbra, Scalix, Sogo (my personal fav.). Worth having a look a few and seeing what meets your needs each has pros and cons.

You say you have 25 stations which I believe are on MS, are you looking at swapping client OS to linux too? You don't have to get rid of you MS servers and move to Zentyal over night, there are great how to's explaining how to add Zentyal as an ADC to MS server and to then transition to a Zentyal PDC only setup so you can have both running.

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: robb on September 21, 2013, 09:02:46 pm
Zentyal is perfectly capable of taking the place of a MS 2003 SBS. If you are looking for about 25 users, the small business subscription with the Zarafa addon might be the best deal.

Zentyal is quite easy to manage and even a MS admin can do the job.. :) so don't worry on that, it is not more difficult than managing a Windows SBS.

I do think that you should dive into the admin features of Zentyal. You will see a lot of similar things as you will see in a Windows SBS Webgui, but you will have to get acquainted with Zentyal. There for getting the Zentyal book for Network Administrators is highly recommended, as is getting yourself ZeCA certified. Mateo Burillo (mburillo@zentyal.com) can tell you all about Zentyal education.

Good luck with choosing the right solution for your company, I think Zentyal will do a good job.
regards, robb
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: qsnap on September 26, 2013, 12:15:21 pm
I am in the process of moving from MS to Linux both servers and clients and so far things are not difficult in any way. Both MS server and Zentyal are running along side each other causing no conflict allowing a smooth switch over.

As to email/exchange type server I think you have some options depending on what exactly it is you are looking for. Zentyal comes with Zarafa (which can be expanded at cost) but other options to name only a few are Zimbra, Scalix, Sogo (my personal fav.). Worth having a look a few and seeing what meets your needs each has pros and cons.

You say you have 25 stations which I believe are on MS, are you looking at swapping client OS to linux too? You don't have to get rid of you MS servers and move to Zentyal over night, there are great how to's explaining how to add Zentyal as an ADC to MS server and to then transition to a Zentyal PDC only setup so you can have both running.

Hope this helps

Thanks for some positive direction. :)
NO i am not planning to change windows 7 workstations to linux, only thinking about putting MySQL server and email server on single machine.
As of now i am planning to select most adaptable and reliable linux version maybe zentyal it is.. to show my boss.
How you managing with zentyal server, any troubleshooting you faced, as i understand when something goes wrong in linux you have spend quite a time with it to fix. ?

Thanks @robb as well.. :)
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: christian on September 26, 2013, 12:27:00 pm
Did you notice that Zentyal purpose is not MySQL server. It embeds MySQL for its own purpose. You may use it for other DBs but keep in mind Zentyal manages it for its own usage first. Does it generate side effects ? I don't know but if I had to do this, I would check it carefully.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: qsnap on September 26, 2013, 02:58:36 pm
I have no clue  :o
I thought i would be able to run MySQL db on this as this is based on ubuntu server. (like ubuntu + server feature) I need to know more about this. Thanks for letting me know, if you have more information please do let me know.  :-\
currently i am trying out ClearOS.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: christian on September 26, 2013, 03:07:23 pm
No I didn't investigate this deeper.
What I wanted to highlight is that Zentyal already uses MySQL. This can be seen as an added value but you also have to take it in account just to be sure it doesn't conflict with your plan. I don't think it will but check it twice.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: robb on September 26, 2013, 03:24:17 pm
I have some applications installed on a Zentyal (3.2) server using mysql. I haven't noticed any problems with this. You can add db's and mysql users to your liking.
I would use other users for other db's if possible.

If you intend to use php based applications, make sure you install php5 + libapache2-mod-php5
If you want to integrate mysql with php5, also install php5-mysql

All these packages can be installed through the console using apt.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on September 26, 2013, 03:48:36 pm
There is absolutely no problem in using MySQL for other purposes.

Zarafa the web email client is superb and installs all the php stuff you will need.

I have a habit of installing webmin as well as it gives just a few things extra in terms of DB and online file manager.
You have to give a disclaimer with webmin be carefull as your changes could conflict with zentyal.
This is really for noobs to say don't do something stupid and then rant your server is broken.

The zarafa install gives a good example of security rights.

The mysql password is stored in the zentyal config files. Each application database should have its own user as running all as root is frowned upon due to security implications.

The only thing I don't like and this is nothing to do with zentyal. Zentyal provides everything in one box which is brilliant.

From a sysadmin who runs in the middle of SMB this means the services don't have the isolation of preference as things can come down like dominoes.

As I say for me there are two bits missing from my own Zentyal perfect world.

Webmin and http://lxc-webpanel.github.io/index.html

Both are a doddle to install.

lxc gives me the isolation to install other applications.

lxc is somewhere between a chroot and full hypervisor.

Basically virtualisation with a tiny memory and resource footprint isolated at a network level.

https://www.docker.io/

If you want a super simple higher level abstraction of LXC.

Anyone with zentyal I suggest take a look at the above.

Also the last bit in the jigsaw and its an obvious but the free M$ RSAT Remotes Server Administration Tools for those of us stuck with win clients.

Zentyal isn't a replacement for SBS, its much much more.

PS I do dabble with Microsoft and I was a fan of SBS if you are thinking of 2012 Fundmentals I had to think what does it exactly do apart from create a domain. The license is a catch aswell, I presumed concurrent users but its 25 configured users. At the end of 6 months I realised what it did was annoy. So ditched and there are two choices ClearOS and Zentyal with Zentyal being my preference.

/var/lib/zentyal/conf for mysql password and others

you might need to install apt get install bridge-utils libvirt-bin debootstrap for lxc also do a reboot for the networking

lxc-console -n myfirstcontainer to ssh (the defualt ubuntu template user=ubuntu password=ubuntu)

ctrl+a q to quit

If you look at the image you can see how slim LXC is by sharing the kernel.
This way you can install apps, kill the distro without affecting zentyal.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: rikkan on September 26, 2013, 08:33:02 pm
Sorry to bandwagon your thread qsnap, but i thought replying here would probably be less irritating to people than starting another topic on the same theme.

I've made a living persuading local businesses that it was time to invest in "baby's first server" in the guise of microsoft sbs. Obviously the announcement that it's being discontinued has thrown a spanner in the works so i have been looking for alternatives (full fat server+exchange is too expensive, and my attempts to suggest the cloud have all been laughed out of the room). Several people have pointed me towards Zentyal, and from my demo install it certainly seams like it would tick all the required boxes.

The only slight snag is the price. Unless i have misunderstood the information on the website, the community edition only supports 3 outlook connections, making it effectively useless as a sbs replacement (thunderbird etc might be viable at some future point when trying to persuade clients of the merits of ditching Microsoft altogether, but trying to get there in one jump would be suicidal.)

This leaves me looking at the supported small business edition, but i just can't find a way to make the numbers work. On a nominal 10 user network small business edition + the communications addon comes to 900 euros (or roughly £750) per year.

erring on the generous side, and assuming a 5 year life-cycle (in reality most my tightfisted clients only upgrade every 8-10 years), this would make Zentyal's tco £3750, which is massively more than the £850 or so that (non-oem) sbs would cost and is actually more expensive than server 12 standard + exchange.

I know that effectively i'm comparing supported vs unsupported pricing which is unfair, but it appears to be the only option with the community edition being useless (for my purposes) and the communications addon requiring the small business edition.

Rather than coming here just to bitch, i was hoping that i might have got the wrong end of the stick somewhere along the line & that someone would be able to set me straight. I appreciate that  Zentyal is a product in its own right rather than just a drop-in replacement for microsoft, but when imagining it as one (as im sure more than a few sbs admins are currently doing) i'm struggling to find a way to justify the proposition.

any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on September 26, 2013, 08:41:28 pm
I think you would be better asking about the partner program. As I totally agree about the cost foobar.

Also I would like to pick what modules I use and pay for those and not support something I have no use for.

I could use Zentyal as a simple firewall router and currently would be paying the same as a full blown office solution.
The current licensing scheme might be simple but I have a feeling it is a hindrance to adoption.

I do know that Zentyal is shifting and that openchange is coming on board. If it will run paralell with zarafa or replace I am unsure.

Thing is with samba4 openchange is its exchange partner and the news is really exciting.

But hey Zentyal have a rethink of your licensing as personally I think its pants :)

With Zarafa yeah it has three outlook licenses unless licensed. The web app for many is good enough and no need to support desktop installs.


Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: christian on September 26, 2013, 08:43:23 pm
any thoughts would be much appreciated.

That's an interesting debate indeed.
What's the main goal ? To replace SBS in term of feature or to replace SBS for free or at least at very low cost?
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on September 26, 2013, 08:51:05 pm
I don't think its a matter of replacing SBS for cost reason's as SBS et tu bill.

The current license isn't representative of real world prices.

Hardware is really cheap and partitioning services across a few servers makes a network much more robust.

There isn't even a domain price. Its just too monolithic and for many hard to justify the cost.

I have a feeling that the current scheme will garner a few high value customers at the detriment of a huge market of low cost modules.

The all-in-one offering has failed again and again, anyone remember what wordperfect did and an upstart brought out an office suite of applications of choice.
 
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: rikkan on September 26, 2013, 08:56:11 pm
I think you would be better asking about the partner program.

Thanks, I'd not thought of that, i'll shoot them an email

That's an interesting debate indeed.
What's the main goal ? To replace SBS in term of feature or to replace SBS for free or at least at very low cost?

A mix of both i suppose as i effectively have two markets
1. existing clients who're more likely to be irked about sbs features suddenly disappearing in an upgrade
2. new clients getting their first server who won't know any different.

In order of priority the things i'm after are
1. exchange replacement, ideally with activesync ( it does need to do contacts & calendars aswell rather than just imap)
2. central logons (roaming profiles are a nice touch but not the end of the world)
3. group policy alike
4. the usual assortment of file-server / backup toys
5. a sharepoint equivalent would be a nice touch but ... meh who uses sharepoint anyway? 

In terms of cost, in an ideal world it'd be free, but business-grade things seldom are. As a more realistic wishlist £1500 per release (or £300 a year) is probably all the money. One thing that i think is worth mentioning, is that my experience has been that a major part of peoples objection to the cloud has been over the shift from perpetual licenses to ongoing subscriptions (almost regardless of the cost, although that's also a factor), so given a choice being able to frontload it would actually be an advantage over microsoft.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on September 26, 2013, 09:04:03 pm
I have a feeling that openocean made an inspired choice for the leadership of zentyal development.
http://www.zentyal.org/2013/04/zentyal-appoints-julien-kerihuel-as-chief-technology-officer/
http://www.openchange.org/

Have a look

What is needed and I think its more or less happened with 3.2 is a stable platform to get zentyal offerings and 3rd party offerings in a marketplace such as google play or the app store and really let zentyal fly.

Alfresco or Liferay could provide sharepoint but we need someone to supply it.

If Zentyal controlled the market place then like the previous they can create revenue. It would be really easy to provide a certificate authentication service and provide solutions for free, commercial and any other offering you would like to think of.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: christian on September 26, 2013, 09:04:08 pm
The current license isn't representative of real world prices.

I won't comment this as this is pure marketing stuff that has to be discussed between Zentyal and customers but, from my viewpoint, not between customers.


Quote
Hardware is really cheap and partitioning services across a few servers makes a network much more robust.

I do agree but don't understand why you don't rather go this way if it brings robustness you need (and trust me I fully share your comment  ;))

Quote
There isn't even a domain price. Its just too monolithic and for many hard to justify the cost.

Again, this is marketing stuff. I can't comment. My feeling is that maintaining, at Zentyal side, different costs for different configuration will just be a nightmare. Then, as OpenSource is quite often understood as "freeware" by our managers, I do agree that justifying cost when one suggest open-source based solution is quite, not to say very, difficult.
Of course, you know that achieving almost same level of feature can be done installing your own components, for free  ;D
This will however not get rid of administrative overhead and will take more of your time in term of support and maintenance. There is also a cost for this  ;)
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: rikkan on September 26, 2013, 09:13:10 pm
it'll be interesting to see whats announced after the conference next month, but it looks like there might still be hope

Edit, the pitfall of rewriting a message 4 or 5 times before posting it is that sometimes it dosn't make any sense by the time you're done... i'll try again

I have a feeling that openocean made an inspired choice for the leadership of zentyal development.
http://www.zentyal.org/2013/04/zentyal-appoints-julien-kerihuel-as-chief-technology-officer/
http://www.openchange.org/

Have a look

What is needed and I think its more or less happened with 3.2 is a stable platform to get zentyal offerings and 3rd party offerings in a marketplace such as google play or the app store and really let zentyal fly.

Alfresco or Liferay could provide sharepoint but we need someone to supply it.

If Zentyal controlled the market place then like the previous they can create revenue. It would be really easy to provide a certificate authentication service and provide solutions for free, commercial and any other offering you would like to think of.

That looks interesting, perhaps there's some hope of an announcement / shift in direction being announced at the conference next month.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: christian on September 26, 2013, 09:19:22 pm
Hope for what?
I'm a bit lost. Is there any special expectation that will dramatically change what we are currently discussing?

Or are you mainly focusing at limitation with "free" Zarafa and hope that Openchange will get rid of this?
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on September 26, 2013, 09:40:22 pm
I am just going to speak for myself.

Anything ridgid, monolithic that doesn't encourage innovation from multiple sources that is about control will eventually fail.

My thoughts are that currently Zentyal is following that path.

It needs a redirection on its licensing and how it is licensed and offered.

Its not just about openchange and its not about a plethora of free solutions out there with very few licences.

Just look at the pricing when most of it is available free, also look where the market place is and what google and m$ cloud solutions will be.

It just doesn't add up.

Rikkan definately get intouch about the partner program as I think you will be happy.

For in house staff who are trying to justify their wages... Mmmm its a shed load of money for what might be one incedent that I couldn't fix in a products life time.

Thats the problem as there seems to be this assumption that we want it for free. No we want to subscribe, but something that we can afford and something we deem sensible!
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: christian on September 26, 2013, 09:51:57 pm
Thats the problem as there seems to be this assumption that we want it for free. No we want to subscribe, but something that we can afford and something we deem sensible!

1 - You're perhaps not part of those but I'm totally convinced that most of users deploying Zentyal go there because this is opensource and therefore it should be supported for free.
2 - I understand your point but don't you think this is rather matter of commercial negotiation between you and Zentyal ? What I mean is: do you think that Zentyal forum is the right place to discuss or challenge Zentyal marketing and strategy ? Well, perhaps this is the right place but I won't discuss it  :-X
3 - I really prefer to focus on technical aspects only. Not that money doesn't matter but this is not my job neither my skill.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: rikkan on September 26, 2013, 10:08:03 pm
Personally i always prefer interacting with company on their forums where possible, and to that end think its the appropriate place to discuss all things zentyal, with the caviat that this board probably isnt (but then there isn't a general chat / offtopic one at present).

At the end of the day they're a private company, and entitled to charge / do whatever they like with their products, and no ammount of self-important whining here will ever change that. On the other hand, its often benificial to be able to gain consensus amongst other users before bombarding the company with ideas / demands. Also, forums have the benefit of being public, which gives the impression that its less likely for a company shrug things off than if they were presented with the same topics individually.   
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on September 26, 2013, 10:11:52 pm
I will tell you honestly. For 2 years I would of provided somewhere in the region of £200 for my installs.
That would of worked for me.
I wanted to provide as I value effort. I value opensource and realise that beer isn't free.

Zentyal missed out on a couple of grand because there licensing made the solutions too expensive.

I am a sysadmin who only requires insurance for the odd occasion or death. At the current prices I will gamble that death or the odd occasion will not happen.

:)

I quit Zentyal with 3.0 and moved to my own setup's with webmin. I also could build from ubuntu. Zentyal is a great admin console that makes admin so much easier and quicker. Then again it only takes a couple of installs and the cost starts making my webmin or vanilla ubuntu offerings much more cost efficient.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: christian on September 26, 2013, 10:44:18 pm
I quit Zentyal with 3.0 and moved to my own setup's with webmin. I also could build from ubuntu. Zentyal is a great admin console that makes admin so much easier and quicker. Then again it only takes a couple of installs and the cost starts making my webmin or vanilla ubuntu offerings much more cost efficient.

I fully share.
I made it the other way around, having deployed my own infrastructure based on components like posttfix, squid, LDAP ... then decide to look at eBox (even before Zentyal) and I liked this concept. But as far as cost matters, you're fully right, or at least I share your view, your own installation is cheaper. Does it offer same level of service especially when you are out-of-office, on vacation or if you have multiple servers to maintain.
As you say, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Then, like for cloud or for RAID design, the "cost efficient" concept is something that really depends on your organization, your needs and you capability to maintain or not your IT landscape at the expected level.

I'm not saying Zentyal is perfect (I've quite a lot of disagreements with Zentyal current design) but at least what they have set up is consistent and fits SMB's demand, for what I understand.

As SBS replacement, I think this is currently one of the best solution available.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on September 26, 2013, 10:56:24 pm
I think the zentyal solution is great and with 3.2 and current direction things are looking tremendous.

My whinging and dictate isn't about that. I honestly believe that Zentyal is missing revenue.

I believe a modular approach allows us choice of configuration and also returns feedback to what is of value.
I think the current price means that many choose to go free and this means lost revenue.

I also think I would purchase per incident tickets. I think there are a lot of things that would make zentyal for situation more financially viable to provide revenue.

I honestly believe the current rigid structure is probably losing Zentyal money. There are a lot of different providers with different structures and this one for all misses so many.

Thats all and I am honest enough to say it.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: robb on September 27, 2013, 10:40:54 am
I think you are making a 'thinking error' or at least compare apples to pears when you set the license costs of a MS SBS server next to the Support contract of a Zentyal Small business edition.

License costs of a Zentyal server are 0 (ZERO)

If you want support on a Zentyal server you pay an anual fee. Together with the support you receive additional services like full Zentyal cloud services.

I haven't tried if it is possible to use a fully licensed Zarafa instance on a community Zentyal server. If this is possible, you could do without a Zentyal support contract.

Bottomline: a SBS support contract comes at EUR75,- per month incuding 25 Zarafa licenses. I don't know how it is in UK but here in Holland and Belgium EUR75,- is about 1 hour work for a hired sysadmin. I think you will save a bundle on hired hours by having a support contract.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: nachico on September 27, 2013, 12:07:13 pm
Hi everyone,

good and interesting thread. FYI, at our Summit (http://summit.zentyal.com/), in just one week, we are going to publish the first technology preview of Zentyal OpenChange. This is a new module, that will be published in the new alpha version for the community edition, and which implements a perfect native replacement of Microsoft Exchange. MS Outlook users cannot make the difference between MS Exchange and Zentyal OpenChange. Zentyal integrates Samba4, so it is also natively compatible with Active Directory. With this addition, Zentyal becomes a complete and native replacement for Windows Small Business Server (which is now discontinued).

We will continue offering Zarafa for those customers who prefer that solution, but OpenChange is the best alternative for customers willing to migrate away from MS Exchange, as there is no change for their users and the migration from MS Exchange is just 3-clicks away.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: qsnap on September 27, 2013, 12:35:07 pm
That's a great news.  :)
i accidentally posted this on other thread, deleted from there and now adding here. sorry for that.

My understanding before was, the cost of zentyal SB server is 495€?  http://www.zentyal.com/pricing-editions/.
as robb correct me, that basic small business server is free to use from zentyal? and the support cost is 495€.  and just need to buy zarafa mail server to work with zentyal.

This is quite a good configuration to save against MS, but obviously how anyone can manage zentyal on their own? it looks easy to configure and manage, but linux has its own world.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on September 27, 2013, 12:50:56 pm
What I am saying is that I would like to contribute. What I am saying is that there is only one method to do this and currently that is way beyond my goodwill.

My argument is that Zentyal are missing probable revenue because the support option is monolithic.

I guess where I am crossing the line is that with 3.0 we have seen a rolling product where it didn't work. Personally I couldn't consider it a stable release, I have not had the confidence to run it in production.

As a consultant it was M$ who throw the spanner into my works as my clients requested Win7 and they removed NT4 domains support from the equation.

I used to provide Opensource server solutions and a combination of M$ and a seriously ropey 3.0 release lost most of my business. My own fault as well as generally the requests to shift to a M$ AD controller was refused.

I guess its a matter of confidence but after 3.0 and the manner that updates came out where things worked then didn't work without making configuration changes has it at a low.

Also when it comes charging €75 per hour, you wouldn't have any jobs, would you. English speaking unfortunately but I am willing to learn.

You asked so I am just being honest, but after 3.0 and its manner of release I don't have the confidence at the moment to run without some form of response. You had bugs and you where not releasing information to the community. It was a disaster where the five servers I had and contracts are no longer. Maybe I undervalue myself but the upshot was that it cost me £30,000 a year.

I work with small business's and what I do is I install a server and it works. Usually I don't need support but I am thinking in two ways.

Yes I would like to purchase a per incident ticket just in case, I might be on holiday or whatever. Also I would like to purchase a ticket because it might not have anything to do with me. It might be the plain fundamental fact that there isn't a chance it will work.

Also from last time it seemed to be specific modules. Again it irritates me that the support of a router solution costs the same as a full office server solution.

So after a lot of moaning my thought path is that actually opensource isn't about free software. Its a radical business model that has huge possibilities from a plethora of revenue schemes. It annoys me that many opensource projects have revenue schemes that echo commercial closed source methods whilst so much is possible.

Also due to the unique nature of Zentyal being a collection of 3rd party opensource solutions with a common admin interface I feel this all in one support option does not give the choice that I thought opensource was supposed to represent.
 
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: ProNetic.dk on September 27, 2013, 01:11:01 pm
Hi everyone,

good and interesting thread. FYI, at our Summit (http://summit.zentyal.com/), in just one week, we are going to publish the first technology preview of Zentyal OpenChange. This is a new module, that will be published in the new alpha version for the community edition, and which implements a perfect native replacement of Microsoft Exchange. MS Outlook users cannot make the difference between MS Exchange and Zentyal OpenChange. Zentyal integrates Samba4, so it is also natively compatible with Active Directory. With this addition, Zentyal becomes a complete and native replacement for Windows Small Business Server (which is now discontinued).

We will continue offering Zarafa for those customers who prefer that solution, but OpenChange is the best alternative for customers willing to migrate away from MS Exchange, as there is no change for their users and the migration from MS Exchange is just 3-clicks away.

Cheers,

Great news!
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: robb on September 27, 2013, 01:28:42 pm
It would be interesting if/how migration from Zarafa to OpenChange on a Zentyal server will be possible....
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on September 27, 2013, 01:40:59 pm
I really like the Zarafa webapp and rate it higher than the M$ one. Sogo have a webapp for openchange but my opinion is that it isn't as good as Zarafa.

There is one thing my clients needed that the Zarafa web app didn't supply and that was to be able to send tasks to other users. You can create tasks but the delegation model isn't there.

So I guess it will all be down to operation and need and rollout options of web based vs desktop.

OPenchange is great news though as a supplier I have seen the benefits to open source but have struggled to sell this at the desktop level.
Having AD and exchange compliance in a box is a massive plus for any alternative to M$ especially if you have used products such as Server Essentials 2012
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: qsnap on October 04, 2013, 11:20:37 am
i am finding zentyal is the solution for our network, with small business server (25) and paid technical support cost is around 400 pounds/year which will be ok for us. also zarafa plugin will do exchange.  :)

one thing need to clarify that zarafa is like exchange like mail server but what about communication add-on provided by zentyal?
What is difference between communication add-on and zarafa email server, We will be getting avaya telephone system will be configurable with that?

Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: robb on October 04, 2013, 12:29:15 pm
With Zentyal 3.2 the asterisk module has been dropped so I don't think that IPphone is possible.

The Zarafa plugin is the Zarafa license you need to use outlook (MAPI propriety protocol implementation for Outlook)
Zarafa module is with 3 'free' outlook connectors. If you need more you have to buy additional licenses that are available through Zentyal support contract.
If you decide not to use outlook, you don't need them.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: qsnap on October 04, 2013, 01:23:24 pm
@robb, i am looking for small B server edition  for 25 peoples and i think you are talking about free community edition? :o
The mail server which comes with zentyal is enough, if i am using Thunderbird mail client? and also can i get push emails on phones? 

as far as my understanding i need to buy communication add-on https://store.zentyal.com/other/communications-add-on.html (https://store.zentyal.com/other/communications-add-on.html) or zarafa licences. https://store.zentyal.com/other/zarafa-small-business.html (https://store.zentyal.com/other/zarafa-small-business.html)
 
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: robb on October 04, 2013, 05:22:16 pm
qsnap: You need to understand that if you go for a subscribed version (for instance the SMB version with communication addon) you pay for SUPPORT + some extra benefits. Have a look at the chart at zentyal.com for those differences.

If your goal is to support the server yourself and you don't need the outlook connector for each user, you could do with the community version.

So you need to decide if you NEED or WANT the extra benefits of a subscription.

Keep in mind that SUPPORT contract is something totally different than LICENSE costs you pay for MS Windows.
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: qsnap on October 04, 2013, 06:26:33 pm
Thanks robb for your comments :) helped alot  :)
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: half_life on October 05, 2013, 08:58:07 pm
On the VOIP front,  the Ubuntu platform is not well supported for "ready to use" asterisk packages. Sure, you can install a working copy of asterisk but you need to be prepared to roll up your sleeves and configure it manually.  Visual Dialplan works nicely here but there is nothing to equal the convenience provided by freebpx,trixbox, or pbxiaf for instance. 

If a small install was my target I might look at a Raspberry PI running PBXIAF (limited testing here).   Larger (more than 50 seats)  I would be looking at a full blown computer with freepbx (Elastix is my favorite variant).

Either way,  I don't think that I would try to keep the gateway married to the pbx ( I ran this way for a few years under Suse and it didn't really work that well).  I chose to run a separate asterisk instance in both environments where I have deployed Zentyal.  Zentyal is a wonderful gateway/email product.  In my opinion the AD controller module is a good addition to the lineup.  Asking it to play a full fledged media gateway (asterisk) as well is asking too much IMHO .
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: qsnap on October 16, 2013, 02:47:07 pm
guys openchange is released now exchange alternative, has anyone tried with zentyal? 
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: BrettonWoods on October 16, 2013, 03:03:01 pm
Currently its the 3.3 beta and in development. So dont make any judgements.

A few bleeding edge testers are reporting good results have a look through the forum
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: qsnap on October 18, 2013, 01:49:25 pm
ohh yes.  :)

Also we may go for Small business service for zentyal. For email server which add-on from zentyal store will be better communication add-on or Zarafa Small Business - User Pack ? 

In communication add-on i can use outlook with IMAP and mobile emails. where in zarafa we can integrate our calenders mails etc exchange way. hope i am thinking it right. :)


Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: rcarney on November 11, 2013, 09:14:10 pm
I am trying to get M$ outlook to connect to Zentyal 3.2 32-bit.  I configured it and the webaccess login works fine and I can send and get email.  Next, I downloaded Zarafa 7.x.x plugin and installed it on the client.  I guess from responses above I should have 3 licenses by default.  But I am getting a no connection error message.  I turned off mail imap settings and turned them on in Groupware.

Any ideas as to the problem?  Or some steps to properly configure for the outlook?

Thanks,

Ron
Title: Re: Zentyal server is replacement for MS SBS ?
Post by: w00dmAn on November 15, 2013, 01:51:42 am
Hi guys,

I'm going to replace my old SBS 2003 and I need an advice

Are you suggest to use Zentyal 3.0 (during 3.2 version is not stable and have an issue with Samba)
or an alternative like ClearOS

Anybody got a research what is better for production server?

Thanks a lot for yours advices!

regards,
Alex