Zentyal Forum, Linux Small Business Server

Zentyal Server => Installation and Upgrades => Topic started by: scott on March 22, 2013, 09:09:29 pm

Title: [SOLVED]noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 22, 2013, 09:09:29 pm
hello
im a rookie to alot of this but my setup sould be really easy. im probably missing something simple.
anyway this is what im trying to setup. i have 3 nics running on a amd64.


     (nic1) eth2                 (nic2)eth0
        static/                       dhcp
isp---------------zentyal---------------------------- router/wap for home pc's/tablets, ect
                     ebox ----------------------------- ps3
                                   nic3(eth1)
                                      static

nic1 is up and running no promblem
nic2 zentyal says its running correctly i think but i cant connect to internet
nic3 same as nic2
i want to have better qos and more features as my home network expands.

oh and on the nic 2 should i let my zentyal dhcp or let my ap do it?
all help would be greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: christian on March 22, 2013, 10:02:31 pm
And what's your problem so far, if I can ask ?
I can't find any question in your post aside DHCP concern.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 22, 2013, 10:09:12 pm
my lac network cant access my  wan network. i think i expand that right.


Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 22, 2013, 10:14:05 pm
(nic1) eth2                 (nic2)eth0
        static/                       dhcp
isp---------------zentyal---------------------------- router/wap for home pc's/tablets, ect
                     ebox ----------------------------- ps3
                                  nic3(eth1)
                                     static
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 22, 2013, 10:17:00 pm
so from my internet to zentyal connects
but from zentyal to my lac network nothing

Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: robb on March 22, 2013, 11:02:13 pm
What version of Zentyal are you using?
What subnets are configured on the 3 adapters?
Do you have Zentyal firewall active?
Did you mark any adapter as external? If so, which?
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 22, 2013, 11:22:17 pm
zentyal 3.0 dashboard is 3.0.16
nic 1 is set as an external wan  subnet 255.255.255.128
nic 2 set as internal dhcp doesn't show subnet
nic 3 set as internal static ip of 192.168.0.1 subnet 255.255.255.0
firewall is disable for now
this info from network interfaces
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: robb on March 23, 2013, 09:40:49 pm
A subnet is something different as a subnet mask. You gave the subnetmasks, not the subnets.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 24, 2013, 12:42:48 am
Unless you are using the AP as a router (not really necessary for your setup) use Zentyal for dhcp.  Also, move the cable from Zentyal to your AP from WAN to one of the internal wired ports (probably why you can't connect from the internal network).  Try that and then we can get to tackling the PS3.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 25, 2013, 11:24:27 pm
nic1) eth2                 (nic2)eth0
        static/                       dhcp

isp---------------zentyal---------------------------- router/wap for home pc's/tablets, ect
                     ebox ----------------------------- ps3
                                  nic3(eth1)
                                     static

nic1: external Subnet:    64.113.173.128/25
nic2: internal  Subnet:    192.168.0.0/25
nic3: internal  subnet:         192.168.1.0/24
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 25, 2013, 11:26:26 pm
i have teamviewer installed on my zentyal. if any has it ill watch n learn be cool.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 26, 2013, 12:22:35 am
nic1) eth2                 (nic2)eth0
        static/                       dhcp

isp---------------zentyal---------------------------- router/wap for home pc's/tablets, ect
                     ebox ----------------------------- ps3
                                  nic3(eth1)
                                     static

nic1: external Subnet:    64.113.173.128/25
nic2: internal  Subnet:    192.168.0.0/25
nic3: internal  subnet:         192.168.1.0/24

I am going to refer to your network devices just by their ethX names.

eth2 connected to isp.  IP statically set to 64.113.173.128 and netmask set to 255.255.255.128  marked as external in Zentyal.
eth0 connected to AP (not in the WAN port) IP set statically 192.168.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0.
(Note-- turn off dhcp in the AP and turn on dhcp in Zentyal)
eth1 connected to PS3 IP statically set 192.168.1.1 netmask 255.255.255.0

You will need to define dhcp settings for eth0 and eth1.

Once you have things setup time to test.
on the Zentyal server:
ping 8.8.8.8   (you should get responses if not you have a physical network problem)
ping www.yahoo.com ( you should get responses, if it says hostname not found you have dns problems)

Computer on internal network:
check to see if you have an IP address  -- if not dhcp has not been setup properly
ping 192.168.0.1
ping 8.8.8.8
ping www.yahoo.com

This doesn't cover all of the steps necessary to get it running but I am making assumptions about what you have already done.  Let us know where you are still having problems.


Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: christian on March 26, 2013, 06:35:48 am
If I can try some comments, hopping not to be wrong  :-[

1 - My feeling is that Scott mixes DHCP as client and DHCP as server.
2 - your proposal regarding eth2 may not work.

Let's start with the last one:
Scott reports 64.113.173.128/25 for this interface. This means 126 hosts on this class A subnet, the very first available address being 64.113.173.129.
My advice here would be to set Zentyal external interface as "DHCP client" to benefit from provider's settings (IP address, netmask, DNS, route etc..."

Regarding internal addresses, I fully share your comments:
- use static address and activate DHCP server so that clients connecting to these subnets can access Zentyal (and then internet) easily.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: robb on March 26, 2013, 08:27:35 am
I realy wonder why the ps3 needs another subnet.
Why not just go with 2 NICs. 1 external and 1 internal.
On the internal you connect a switch with enough ports to add an AP and the ps3 and any other wired devices.
If the ps3 needs a fixed address, configure it on the same subnet of the internal NIC. Configure a DHCP scope on Zentyal internal NIC. Make the scope start at (for instance) 50 and end at (for instance) 200. This way you have 150 IP addresses available for dynamic IP. That should be more than enough.
The ps3 can have any static IP address on the subnet outside the DHCP scope, as long it is not already taken by another device with a static IP address.
Make sure the AP is NOT acting as a DHCP server!! Zentyal will handle DHCP just fine.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: christian on March 26, 2013, 08:33:27 am
FYI and reinforcing Robb's comment, I've some PS3 here at home just relying on Zentyal DHCP server, sharing same LAN as any other device. Works like a charm according to my son, even for on-line game :)
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 26, 2013, 08:27:59 pm
ok so everything is up and running. im such a dummy so simple. ty for the help.
bad news is my ping is super high through my ap between 500 and 800 ms.
and my ps3 is 2 to 3 time higher in ping.
my average ping with computer connected directly to the modem is about 23 ms.
oh am i able to have my ps3 outside the firewall or i do need to just setup up the firewall and port forward for it.
is theres a way to have my ps3 show as nat type 1?
oh and my firewall is currently disabled on the zentyal
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 26, 2013, 08:32:45 pm
sry zentyal firewall is enabled.
i cant ping google.com, yahoo, ect through my ap without it enabled.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 26, 2013, 08:47:38 pm
i think its a firewall issue. i just got to get it set right.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 26, 2013, 09:56:43 pm
Could you temporarily hook a laptop/desktop into the AP via cat5 and re-test pinging to 8.8.8.8?  Also what are the ping times to 8.8.8.8 from the Zentyal machine?
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 26, 2013, 10:23:05 pm
i currently have pc wired to the ap for setup and testing.
 
from pc:
C:\Users\new user>ping 192.168.0.1(zentyal)

Pinging 192.168.0.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.0.1:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms

C:\Users\new user>ping 8.8.8.8

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=44
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=44
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=44
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=44

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 43ms, Maximum = 43ms, Average = 43ms

C:\Users\new user>ping www.yahoo.com

Pinging ds-any-fp3-real.wa1.b.yahoo.com [98.138.253.109] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 98.138.253.109: bytes=32 time=512ms TTL=49
Reply from 98.138.253.109: bytes=32 time=428ms TTL=49
Reply from 98.138.253.109: bytes=32 time=843ms TTL=49
Reply from 98.138.253.109: bytes=32 time=351ms TTL=49

Ping statistics for 98.138.253.109:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 351ms, Maximum = 843ms, Average = 533ms

sometimes i loose a packets all together pinging to www.yahoo.com

from zentyal
ping to 8.8.8.8 was 44 ms
ping to www.yahoo.com was all over the place. i ran like 20 packets some ping as low as 127 ms and some as high 867 ms
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 26, 2013, 10:28:33 pm
desktop test sending in bytes=32
zentyal  test send in byte=64
dont think this makes a difference, i wouldn't think so, but i'll post just in case.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: ichat on March 26, 2013, 10:36:51 pm
what i dont like about this is the folling..


you are  plinging   1  local router (zentyal in this case)  by  IP...
than you are pinging  google public  dns server ...  but than you are pinging not google  but yahoo...
where from my standpoint you would have pinged google.com 


anyway,  43ms  too google.com  is a bit hight but absolutely within any normal limitations...  this leads me to beleave that the 500ms  ping time  is releated to dns resoltuion and not to network routing


that said,   you should find out why this is...  a first logical step for me would be to check  how fast zentyal local terminal   will be at pinging  8.8.8.8  and than  yahoo.com
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 26, 2013, 10:49:24 pm
that how i ping from zentyal was from the terminal
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 26, 2013, 10:52:41 pm
ping from zentyal to www.google.com instead of 8.8.8.8 is only 32 ms
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 27, 2013, 12:06:02 am
DNS lookups happen at the beginning of a ping run so after the first ping it will not effect the time of flight.  I chose 8.8.8.8 specifically because it is:

A) an IP address therefore DNS is taken out of the picture.
B) It is the IP address for googles dns service and typically has short hops between local and the target.

pinging www.yahoo.com  or www.google.com will give varying results because those urls will point to different servers on a round-robin basis.

What did this test tell us.

Anything on the wired network is getting good physical connectivity to the interenet with decent latency.

This leaves the wireless network and specifically the wireless router as the probable culprit.  What model/make of router do you have?

Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 27, 2013, 12:32:05 am
its a netgear wndr3700v4.
i also have a belkin play f7d8302v1 laying around somewhere.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 27, 2013, 12:34:51 am
Give me some time to read the manuals for it. 
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 27, 2013, 12:45:54 am
it pretty much only has a one click setup.
with 1 option:
Choose IP Address settings on this access point
            Get dynamically from existing router
        Use fixed IP Address (not recommanded )
im using dynamically
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 27, 2013, 12:48:24 am
I have a series of places to check:

First have you done a wireless survey to ensure that you are not being stepped on with your current channel selection?

Did you reconfigure the router to be just an AP?  Dumped port triggering etc?

Did you clear out any keyword filtering/turn the feature off?

Are you using the nas features of the device?



Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 27, 2013, 12:49:21 am
There are quite a few items that are configurable on the device.  You might want to page through the manual.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 27, 2013, 12:51:20 am
once you set it up as an ap all the option grey out and are disable. except for qos
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 27, 2013, 01:20:22 am
Wireless survey?
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 27, 2013, 01:21:26 am
This is useful to do surveys if you have a laptop.

http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/ (http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/)
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 27, 2013, 01:54:36 am
thats  a really cool tool i used the mobile version.
but keep in mind i did the ping test wired to the ap
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 27, 2013, 02:01:40 am
Let me make sure that I am understanding.  After getting zentyal integrated into your network,  your chief complaint was "super high" ping times through your router.  We have isolated out the wired portion of the network being contributors to your issue.  Since there are configurable items on your router  when operating in AP mode,  I am letting in/letting out channel conflicts etc as a source of your problem.   

Did I misunderstand?

Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: ichat on March 27, 2013, 02:48:11 pm
half_life agreed,  i wasn't criticzing but i wanted to add to the information to help understand more about it...
the only  small crictic i gave was... that  after you did the 2 ipbased  you took a host on a diferent network... 
first ping an ip by google than  a dns by yahoo instead of also google...

the rest i absolutely agree,   im also intrested about the  / switch / wifi app  / router device thingy...
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 27, 2013, 06:34:49 pm
yes a higher then normal ping is the only issue im having. everything esle running great. you guys are awsome.
and sry every1. but between all the input and translation getting lost. im a little upside down. so just to make sure we are on the same page.
fresh start
what addresses should i be pinging?
and from what device would you like me to ping from?
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 27, 2013, 07:01:23 pm
You want to ping 8.8.8.8  from wired machines inside the network and at the server.  You then want to ping the same address from a wireless client.
You will want to ping a url of something local to you (newspaper, business website etc) both from wired and wireless devices. 

Each test will tell you about the relative connectivity of your wired and wireless networks.

You are also interested in how long it takes between starting a ping to your url and the first actual ping going out.  (This will give you qualitative  information about dns lookups)
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 27, 2013, 10:55:59 pm
from zentyal server.

scott@zentyal:~$ ping 8.8.8.8
PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=1 ttl=45 time=44.7 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=2 ttl=45 time=45.1 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=3 ttl=45 time=45.8 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=4 ttl=45 time=44.3 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=5 ttl=45 time=44.3 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=6 ttl=45 time=44.3 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=7 ttl=45 time=44.4 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=8 ttl=45 time=43.8 ms
^C
--- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics ---
8 packets transmitted, 8 received, 0% packet loss, time 7009ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 43.855/44.660/45.878/0.618 ms


scott@zentyal:~$ ping www.rgj.com
PING e6500.g.akamaiedge.net (23.59.196.71) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from a23-59-196-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (23.59.196.71): icmp_req=1 ttl=57 time=21.5 ms
64 bytes from a23-59-196-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (23.59.196.71): icmp_req=2 ttl=57 time=22.3 ms
64 bytes from a23-59-196-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (23.59.196.71): icmp_req=3 ttl=57 time=22.3 ms
64 bytes from a23-59-196-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (23.59.196.71): icmp_req=4 ttl=57 time=20.7 ms
64 bytes from a23-59-196-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (23.59.196.71): icmp_req=5 ttl=57 time=22.9 ms
64 bytes from a23-59-196-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (23.59.196.71): icmp_req=6 ttl=57 time=22.7 ms
^C
--- e6500.g.akamaiedge.net ping statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5422ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 20.770/22.117/22.996/0.787 ms

test from pc inside the network wired ill have on next then the wireless


Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 27, 2013, 11:06:52 pm
from pc -----ap----zentyal(wired)nic1 internal
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Users\new user>ping 8.8.8.8

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=44
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=44
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=42ms TTL=44
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=44

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 42ms, Maximum = 44ms, Average = 43ms

C:\Users\new user>ping www.rgj.com

Pinging e6500.g.akamaiedge.net [23.59.196.71] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 23.59.196.71: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=56
Reply from 23.59.196.71: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=56
Reply from 23.59.196.71: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=56
Reply from 23.59.196.71: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=56

Ping statistics for 23.59.196.71:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 21ms, Maximum = 25ms, Average = 22ms
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 27, 2013, 11:19:36 pm
from wireless device(smartphone)----ap---zentyal(wirless)

--- Mar 27, 2013 3:14:53 PM
--- IP (eth0) 192.168.0.3

PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=1 ttl=44 time=53.8 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=2 ttl=44 time=58.0 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_seq=3 ttl=44 time=52.2 ms

--- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2011ms
min = 52.277 ms
avg = 54.718 ms
max = 58.044 ms
mdev = 2.436 ms

--- Mar 27, 2013 3:16:12 PM
--- IP (eth0) 192.168.0.3

PING e6500.g.akamaiedge.net (23.59.196.71) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from a23-59-196-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (23.59.196.71): icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=22.8 ms
64 bytes from a23-59-196-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (23.59.196.71): icmp_seq=2 ttl=56 time=23.7 ms
64 bytes from a23-59-196-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (23.59.196.71): icmp_seq=3 ttl=56 time=33.3 ms

--- e6500.g.akamaiedge.net ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2111ms
min = 22.858 ms
avg = 26.662 ms
max = 33.355 ms
mdev = 4.747 ms
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 27, 2013, 11:24:54 pm
well it looks good to me now. so i guess i have no issue?
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 28, 2013, 12:22:02 am
You wouldn't happen to be using mixed g and n devices on the 2.4ghz network would you?   Did you happen to run a wireless survey to see if there are other networks on the same channel?

Just because the problem is not presenting itself now, does not mean that you don't have a problem.  It could be intermittent in nature.

If the problem shows up again run the survey with particular interest to other APs on or within 2 channels of yours (even if they are lower than -90dbm).  Also take note of which devices are using the wireless network noting whether they are 802.11G or N. 

Post back here as I routinely check for new replies to topics that I am involved in.

Have fun!
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 28, 2013, 01:07:34 am
pinging yahoo must have mislead me. simply because when the pc----- modem----internet ping to yahoo.com is less 200 ms, but pinging yahoo.com when  zentyal-----modem---- is between 500-800 ms.
pinging everything else is normal for my area, except a couple sites they're similar yahoo's test.

im not mixing g and n devices
survey is good.
thank again for that tool.
here is a tool for you: name bench, its a dns benchmark tool
http://code.google.com/p/namebench/
you probably have something similar already

if you want to have a more organized desktop screen check out: fences by stardock,
http://download.cnet.com/Fences/3000-2072_4-10909535.html?tag=mncol;2
 :)  :)  :)

1 more thing:
i didn't realize it earlier. i had my ap wired to the wrong interface which is the 2nd nic on the internal.(configured for the ps3)
which is configured:
interface static 192.168.0.1
dhcp range set 192.168.0.2-192.168.02
which was fine when i did the test cause only 1 device was connected to the ap at 1 time.
one i moved the ap to the correct nic(nic1 on the internal) (configured for the ap)
which is configure:
interface static: 192.168.1.1
dhcp range set 192.168.1.2-192.168.1.200
only the first wired device to the ap will pick up and ip address automatically. i tryed a wireless device first too it wouldn't obtain an ip address automatically.
i can configure additional devices ip's manually and no problem, but it should be kicking out ip addresses automatically and it is not. i normal wouldn't care but it makes it hard to connect smartphones and tablets if you know what i mean
 
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 28, 2013, 01:48:47 am
This is a peculiarity of the router.  You could try plugging it in to the WAN port.  This would indicate that the AP might running some kind of firewall or other filtering mechanism.  If switching connections from Zentyal to the AP (over to WAN) doesn't cure the problem I might suggest hooking the other AP up.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 28, 2013, 02:04:22 am
are you saying i to set that nic like this?
interface static: 192.168.1.1
external(wan) X
dhcp range set 192.168.1.2-192.168.200

x=check mark
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: half_life on March 28, 2013, 03:01:56 am
No,  on the side of the router there is a port labeled WAN or ADSL.  I had you plug the wire from the server into one of the regular ethernet ports.  Try moving it to the one labeled WAN/ADSL.
Title: Re: noob needs help
Post by: scott on March 28, 2013, 05:40:23 am
ok i got it. and its hooked up through the wan port on the ap.
ty vary much