Zentyal Forum, Linux Small Business Server

News and Announcements => News and Announcements => Topic started by: jkerihuel on September 03, 2013, 01:25:44 pm

Title: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: jkerihuel on September 03, 2013, 01:25:44 pm
Good afternoon all,

After careful consideration, during which we have taken into account Zentyal Server strategy and focus, usage statistics and general user and customer feedback, we have taken the decision to move the following modules to the Contrib Repository:

These modules will continue being supported in the earlier Zentyal Server versions until the end of the life of each version, but Zentyal Server 3.2 will not include these modules anymore. Naturally, we warmly welcome Community Members interested in developing and/or maintaining any of them. In general terms, all of these modules are very little used, but for clarity's sake, we would like to provide an explanation of the specific reasons for moving them from Official to Contrib Repository:


Eventually, it all comes down to focus and limited resources. The goal of Zentyal Server is to offer an easy-to-use Linux server for small businesses. This is what we want to be the best at and sometimes it means that we have to stop, think and drop things that are out of the focus. Maybe we will come back to them at one stage, who knows? But for now, there is a truly amazing Zentyal Server 3.2 release coming and we would be thrilled to have you joining the testing effort, the release party and/or Zentyal Summit - We're looking forward to your feedback both online and on site!

Kind Regards,
Julien.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Community Repository
Post by: Lonniebiz on September 03, 2013, 01:38:04 pm
Fair enough.

Well, I suspect, that if the underly technologies of these modules mature (to the point that managing them is relatively trouble free), perhaps they will again be included in later editions?
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: half_life on September 04, 2013, 05:51:33 pm
What a funny coincidence.  I spent a good portion of last weekend researching the virtualization module in 2.2 and 3.0 and had come to the conclusion that using third party tools such as virt-manager was the correct route for managing KVM under Zentyal.  I had started a write-up on how to best achieve this while still allowing the Zentyal GUI to start and stop VMs.  Now I suppose this is more of a "tips and tricks" topic as to how to add KVM to an existing Zentyal.  I was more than a little confused at Zentyal staffs approach (using libvirt create instead of define for instance). 

I will miss the thin client feature in my home environment but it is easy to add another virtual machine to my current fleet to handle this. 

Ultimately I feel that where virtualization is required,  it is best to virtualize Zentyal under a dedicated hypervisor (Proxmox in my case).

I have always wondered why something like freepbx hasn't become a standard package for debian style systems.  Visual Dialplan works with the Zentyal implementation ( I did limited testing a few years ago) but cost and complexity might chase away the Zentyal target customer.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: christian on September 04, 2013, 05:58:03 pm
Ultimately I feel that where virtualization is required,  it is best to virtualize Zentyal under a dedicated hypervisor (Proxmox in my case).

+1  moreover, it prevents to end-up with hypervisor hosting Zentyal embedding another VM ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: half_life on September 04, 2013, 06:29:55 pm
The "box in a box in a box" scenario is a very painful one to endure but it is how I have been testing Zentyal's virtualization product.  It is worth noting that without decent server hardware that VOIP does not virtualize well. 
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: razametal on September 25, 2013, 04:07:16 am
Good afternoon all,

After careful consideration, during which we have taken into account Zentyal Server strategy and focus, usage statistics and general user and customer feedback, we have taken the decision to move the following modules to the Contrib Repository:

Hi Julien,

Please, can you explain how can I configure the contrib repository? It is a apt-get repository?

Sorry if this question is very basis, I've searched in the forum and wiki before asking.

Best regards,
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: dmbaty on September 27, 2013, 04:51:43 am
I'm very disappointed to see virtualization go.  It's the reason I started using Zentyal a few weeks back.  I was a bit confused after I updated to 3.2 until I found this.  I found the older versions of the contrib repo but even those don't seem to have zentyal-virt.  Any info on the how I can add the contrib repo?  Hopefully I won't be forced to downgrade to 3.0 to get it back.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: Rekfuby on October 04, 2013, 09:58:42 pm
Actually, it would have been great to know if there is any way to get those modules back to work in 3.2? Especilly the PPTP, since the technology itself is widely used in Russia, and commonly chosen among others. That, and "thin client" (especially PXE) were actually one of the main reasons I chose Zentyal Server in the first place.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: christian on October 05, 2013, 10:56:54 am
Actually, it would have been great to know if there is any way to get those modules back to work in 3.2?

If I understand correctly, everything is available for those wiling to work on it and contribute to make it available for community.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: jkerihuel on October 05, 2013, 01:17:18 pm
Hi All,

Sorry for the long delay, the week has just been very intense here with the Zentyal Summit.

Long story, short: Christian is right. The repository contrib is actually a code repository, not a package one. Therefore if you are looking for the modules we dropped from the edition, you will have to compile them.

Cheers,
Julien.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: BrettonWoods on October 07, 2013, 06:21:58 am
To be honest I am not all that bothered to see the Zentyal Virt manager Go.

Have a look at this.

https://github.com/retspen/webvirtmgr

There are loads of great tools and server solutions around that don't need to be under the control of Zentyal
It puts so much pressure on their support requirements.

I would love to see more common OSS solutions being backed by the Zentyal community though.

Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: jgould on October 31, 2013, 04:58:47 am
So, I just wanted to make a comment in regards to the VoIP module.

I've been messing around with Asterisk and various GUI's for it. The most popular being FreePBX and then various tools build around FreePBX like Elastix and PBXinaFlash. I've also used "blue.box" from 2600Hz (built for both Asterisk and FreeSwitch). Granted that FreePBX is extremely powerful as a GUI for Asterisk, however the interface IMO leaves a LOT to be desired. Elastix is probably the best in that regard but honestly the user portal is "eh". I've look at zentyal and IMO the GUI aspects for VoIP seem much cleaner. The built in LDAP/AD integration IMO makes it a much more "natural" process which is missing in other tools. TBH, I'm sad to see this go and I seriously hope someone takes a look at this to see if there might be a better solution. Perhaps something like FreeSwitch (and to some extent blue.box/kazoo) can serve as some inspiration to re-implement some type of VoIP solution within zentyal. I'm not really sure what problems caused the module to be removed but FreeSwitch from my testing is less resource intensive, scales better then Asterisk, is just more lean/mean with the features you NEED. It's also been used in commercial products from Barracuda (Cudatel). And I'm almost positive FreeSwitch has an LDAP/AD integration ability. Maybe someone can look into it if they haven't already?

Oh, and zentyal is an excellent tool and I spread the word about it whenever I can.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: Paulxx on November 09, 2013, 03:56:11 pm
I totally agree with jgould and actually the asterisk implementation is by far the best, simplest and the reason I came to zentyal in the first place.

I have tried and would like to upgrade to 3.2 when L2TP is fixed (so far it has internal network setup problems...)  but cannot without voip.

Even if asterisk had a separate user/password system like L2TP or PPTP that would be OK.

Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: half_life on November 10, 2013, 02:54:25 am
As a suggestion if you are intent on using Zentyal and Asterisk on the same server.  You might want to install Freepbx to handle asterisk.  It is also worth noting that Visual dialplan can be used on a Zentyal host.   I have tested Visual Dialplan with Zentyal before I opted to use a separate server back in the 2.X series.  I just now installed Freepbx under Ubuntu 12.04 but have not tested it yet.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: HyperionTech on December 01, 2013, 12:48:23 am
The VoIP was an amazing and necessary feature that should definitely not have been removed IMO! However, I would request that the packages at least be kept available via repo install (apt-get install zentyal-voip), etc.

I personally utilize Zentyal for local call centers and this was a blessing of a feature.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: half_life on December 01, 2013, 03:35:57 am
Considering the Zentyal asterisk module's "some assembly required" labeling was a bit of an understatement,  what exactly are you missing by not managing asterisk via the Zentyal GUI? 

I don't have a complicated setup at work.  I only have 3 queues and 27 DID's to manage with only 10 holiday closings to be concerned with.  I have 3 IVR menus but 2 of them don't see too much use.

As I said,  this is a simple setup and I couldn't see myself managing it with just the tools provided by Zentyal.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: estebanldu on December 30, 2013, 04:13:00 am
El modulo de voip me parece que fue una mala decision y espero que pronto encuentre una nueva y mejor solucion para suplantar a este modulo, creo que asterisk le hacia completo a zentyal y no existia la necesidad de implementar otro servidor de voip como elastix o uno de asterisk ya que zentyal lo tenia todo.
Espero que vuelvan a agregar ese modulo.
Saludos
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: half_life on December 30, 2013, 07:47:02 am
El modulo de voip me parece que fue una mala decision y espero que pronto encuentre una nueva y mejor solucion para suplantar a este modulo, creo que asterisk le hacia completo a zentyal y no existia la necesidad de implementar otro servidor de voip como elastix o uno de asterisk ya que zentyal lo tenia todo.
Espero que vuelvan a agregar ese modulo.
Saludos

Unless an individual is an asterisk expert, setting up and managing anything more than a handful of extensions with no dialplan to speak of would be a nightmare.  I have been using asterisk for 10 years and up til recently developed my dialplans with no tools other than a text editor.  Zentyal's target market would have considerably less experience than I and I would have difficulty maintaining anything more than moderately complicated.  Tools such as Elastix lower the barriers to implementing VOIP.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: Paulxx on December 30, 2013, 03:28:57 pm
Well I did what you suggested half-life. Hours of learning and implementing asterisk with freepbx/elastix. It all works fine on a server outside the zentyal one. I managed to get Zentyal L2TP working too - why on earth does it not just create its own network like PPTP and Openvpn?

Though everything is working, the only thing I like that zentyal voip did not have is the simple elastix call rates and billing report. A2billing is overkill, in fact, the whole thing is massive overkill, counter intuitive and lacking in sensible defaults. It is designed for big call centres with full time staff not small business needs.

I miss Zentyal voip and since zentyal asterisk was relatively lightweight on resources, prefered the inbuilt security of everything in one server - even though I use VPN now. I am probably going to try and get freepbx on the zentyal server next, but I have used it through elastix and it is even worse.The only thing I would miss is that quick elastix per user call cost report but could probably get that using excel.

Zentyal-voip was basically the only option available to anyone who did not have the time, inclination or need to learn asterisk in depth and just wanted something clean and simple that works out of the box... ie. most small businesses.
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: dienteperro on February 11, 2014, 08:34:27 pm
I would like to have again the VoIP module in future versions of Zentyal. Is a great feature for small companies like ours. Long life to Zentyal with asterisk voip module on it!
Title: Re: PPTP, Virtualization, Thin client and VoIP modules moved to Contrib Repository
Post by: christian on February 12, 2014, 10:49:46 am
I would like to have again the VoIP module in future versions of Zentyal.

Is there anything preventing yo to install VoIP software of your choice and benefit from its full features ?