Author Topic: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published  (Read 12558 times)

J. A. Calvo

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Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« on: November 21, 2011, 12:04:02 pm »
As advanced in the Zentyal Summit few days ago, the main development lines for  Zentyal 3.0 are going to be the upgrade to Ubuntu Server 12.04 LTS, better integration with Ubuntu in general, and the improvements on the Desktop and User experience.

You can find more details at:

http://trac.zentyal.org/milestone/3.0

Note that this is not the definitive roadmap and the community feedback and proposals are really welcome.

The features marked as "extra" are things we want to add but we are not sure yet if we will able to, or in some cases, like the Thin Clients feature, will be done with the support of the community.
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Johan_Boshoff

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2011, 01:51:03 pm »
Hi,

I was thinking alot about Zentyal lately and the improvements it needs.  I am really excited about 3.0.

I would really like the option under the FileSystem Backup to backup to more than 1 external disk where a user can just swap hard drives and keep a copy off-site.  The bandwidth in South Africa is really expensive, our customers with 2TB of data (Architects) cannot backup off-site simply because of the costs involved every month.

The users are finding it difficult to swap drives and set the Backup directories etc as it needs some user interaction from them in order to change the drives and for the backup to work properly.

If you would consider this option, I can send through more specific information as to what is needed here.

Thanks, Johan

J. A. Calvo

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2011, 03:13:51 pm »
Thanks Johan, allowing to backup to several destinations (two disks, disk + cloud, etc) is something we have already in our minds. This is just an "small" improvement in the zentyal-ebackup module, and it will probably be included in 3.0, as you can see, the published roadmap does not focus on small improvements, but anyway, your suggestion is really welcome. Thanks!
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Sam Graf

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2011, 03:34:47 pm »
It's good to see Zentyal officially committing to an office-in-a-box solution around Ubuntu Server and Desktop. That gives those who lack the freedom (or interest) to migrate to an Ubuntu-centric office solution helpful and welcome clarity about Zentyal's future course.

I personally think it would be helpful to move away from the generic small business server, Windows-server-alternative type of product descriptions as Zentyal consolidates around Ubuntu and the upstream activity associated with it, especially given the vigorous conversation going on around Unity and Ubuntu's apparent interest in the mobile market. Integration around Ubuntu Server and Desktop will open doors where a non-Microsoft boxed office solution is desirable, while presumably making Zentyal increasingly less transparent and "drop-in" ready in other proprietary and open source contexts (given past reluctance to make it increasingly transparent, at any rate). "Ubuntu Office" isn't just an SMB server product, however you look at it :) . Product descriptions would be helpful if they reflected that total office solution concentration.

For what it's worth.

jrugel

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2011, 08:47:16 pm »
What exactly you mean with "User experience: Master-Slave architecture review". Could this review improve (make it easier) the installation in a redundant environment?

exekias

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 12:37:59 am »
What exactly you mean with "User experience: Master-Slave architecture review". Could this review improve (make it easier) the installation in a redundant environment?

Probably,

we want to rethink the current architecture and make it easier to configure. Also we want to get rid of the limitation which forbids module installation on a master :)

Best regards

arun

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 06:44:43 am »
Dear Zentyal Developers,

First of all, congratulation and best of luck, continuously working for the improvement of the product. I found Zentyal the only easy to use server for the SMBs.

1. Combination of Zentyal Server and Zentyal Ubuntu Desktop, will help the administrators, who would like to implement complete integrated opensource setup in his network. In other words it can immediately replace the M$ Client server setup in any SMB.

2. Configuration backup is great, but there should be a remote (within network) incremental backup of data and restore options, because still in may countries bandwidth is still not cheap. I am using rdiffbackup for the purpose.

Again thanks for developing such a nice product.

Arun

Sam Graf

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 02:56:27 pm »
In other words it can immediately replace the M$ Client server setup in any SMB.

I'm going to comment only because Zentyal's course may marginalize significant numbers of SMBs who can't pursue this integrated "office-in-box" solution. I know Zentyal management are comfortable with this, and perhaps the Zentyal community are also comfortable with this. But for some SMBs and their weary technology managers, this essentially means presenting SMBs with a choice among proprietary systems--just because an integrated office solution is built on open source software doesn't mean it isn't for all practical SMB purposes proprietary--rather than encouraging the freedom to leverage FOSS solutions wherever possible.

SMBs who can't build entirely on FOSS offerings are being penalized, even if unintentionally. At my age this comes as no shock, since I have lost the use of dozens of viable alternatives to Microsoft offerings over the decades. But also at my age, this is wearying. I don't understand the either/or mentality at work, when from my perspective it could be both/and.

Of course, as a long time active supporter of open source software (back to my days writing code for Atari computers), I'm very excited about the idea of integrated "drop in" office solution built on FOSS, and I wish Zentyal and its community the very best. I'm deeply disappointed that it effectively forces me and others like me to look elsewhere for a server solution (there is, naturally, the attractive option of forking Zentyal 2.2 and concentrating on a transparent server product).

So all that to say, Zentyal 3.0 won't be a viable solution for "any" SMB, but for those SMBs in a position to embrace a non-Microsoft, Ubuntu-only, semi-proprietary solution. Some will gain more freedom, and some will lose it. Such is life.

ichat

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2011, 04:06:09 pm »
Sam Graf - this is not true,  zentyal if anything is pushing for a new tightly intergrated alternative to  microsoft windows because of manny vendor locking  stategies from MS.

its not zentyals who is to blame for the problems samba has with microsoft networks and if samba4 will be ready in  zentyal will certainly embrace it...

however we can not be an opensource  ubuntu product while forcing our users to keep using a non opensource desktop...
n'or should we forse them to use tricky hackish solutions to  ducktape-thair desktops to zentyal.

if we want to get any leverage we need our own alternatives to any aspecs of the server / client deal we now have. 
and it will be just that... an alternative 

we should also keep in mind that as long as we will only try to be a windows sbs server clone,  only serving windows clients  we wil always stay behind and become a 2nd rate  software project.   this is not healthy  and it would dry up eventually.

so to quote (but not quote) your own last line:
Zentyal 3.0 won't will be a viable solution for "any" SMB, but even more so than before, for those SMBs in a position to embrace a non-Microsoft, Ubuntu-only, semi-proprietary opensource solution. Some will gain more freedom, and some will not lose it. Such is life.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 04:15:50 pm by ichat »
All tips hints and advices are based on my personal experience.
As I try my best to be as accurate as possible, following my advice is always at your own risk,
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Sam Graf

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2011, 04:15:18 pm »
Those SMBs who elect To use or must use non-Ubuntu productivity tools face reduced options. It's that simple. It could be different if a both/and approach were adopted, but an either/approach means making SMBs choose between competing systems rather than preserving whatever freedom can be preserved for mixing and matching without treating every non-integrated use cases as a special case requiring custom configuration.

So it is true. I'm not happy about that, but i don't see how it can be anything else. Complete freedom from Microsoft isn't option to every SMB on the planet. It's that simple.

ichat

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2011, 04:29:52 pm »
i actually dont understand what your are trying to say here,

the roadmap lists  samba4 and kerborose  as the top 2  feature improvemenets for windows networks...
i can not see how you can say that zentyal is going to push away its windows users.

we are not in fact we are only going to offer aditionall support for non windows users.  where we  did not do that before,
if only you take one look at the zentyal desktop package you can see that it has been neglegted for years.  we have been supporting only windows users,  we tried to be a windows clone,  and if anything is true about  what your said earlier the exact oposit would be that...

Zentyal prior to 3.0 wasn't  a viable solution for "any" SMB, but only for those in a position to embrace a Microsoft-only, semi-proprietary solution.

again,  with the zentyal desktop initiative we only want to add (not break away) additional support.   we never mentioned n'or intend, removing any current microsoft windows based features
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 04:31:23 pm by ichat »
All tips hints and advices are based on my personal experience.
As I try my best to be as accurate as possible, following my advice is always at your own risk,
I claim absolutely NO responsibility in any way!

Sam Graf

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2011, 04:49:32 pm »
I am saying that the desktop initiative has already meant reducing non-Ubuntu solutions (e.g., VDI versus LTSP) to special use status, and that's just in the back room. And that's despite the fact that it would be relatively trivial to support VDI right now without compromising the ability to introduce an LTSP-driven alternative in the future. Why should I think it will be different in vertically integrated mobile and desktop environments?

So if I must have Internet Explorer on the desktop to use a cloud service vital to my business, it is non-trival to commit to a vertically integrated Ubntu-powered total office solution. Or suppose I must use Access to collect complex data to present information to funders, government agencies, or anybody else not embracing an Ubuntu-only office solution? And those are just a simple, real world examples. Things get even more complex as SMBs sort out mobile, remote, and virtual office considerations. Wine doesn't solve all non-Ubuntu business problems any more than LibreOffice does.

ichat

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2011, 05:44:05 pm »
sam  i can see that you think you have to defend your windows desktop choice,  but i dont see why...  where did i  or anyone else say that where going to reduce functionallity for non ubuntu users.

i really dont have a clue why you seam to have come to the conclusion that zentyal is aproaching this in a  either/or fasion




« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 06:01:36 pm by ichat »
All tips hints and advices are based on my personal experience.
As I try my best to be as accurate as possible, following my advice is always at your own risk,
I claim absolutely NO responsibility in any way!

jsalamero

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2011, 06:37:56 pm »
Hi Sam,

I think you totally misunderstood the Zentyal roadmap. The goal is to implement on server side Single Sign On and Domain Controller for both operating systems Windows (with Samba4) and Linux (with Kerberos). Actually, with Samba4 you get a full drop-in Microsoft Domain Controller replacement (advanced policies, etc.), something that is not present on the Linux world. That's one the things will implement Zentyal Desktop for Linux. To give you an example, on Zentyal server you will able to define a policy: "apply this wallpaper to all the workstations", on Windows will be implemented via policy with Samba4, on Linux will be implemented via Zentyal Desktop.

Zentyal Desktop will preconfigure some applications, do some monitoring, alerts, etc. Will be available for both Windows and Linux, with different features (policies are already implemented on Windows, not on Linux), will ease the configuration and management of desktops. If the desktop is VDI, Thin Client (LTSP, TCOS, etc), Fat Client or bare metal, doesn't mind.

About VDI which seems you are very interested into, I suggested you some time ago how to put some configuration snippets inside /etc/zentyal/dhcp so you could integrate these options you need for VDI with the Zentyal interface management. Give it a try. If VDI become a common deployment in the community, I'm completely sure that these options will come to the web interface too!

Sam Graf

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Re: Zentyal 3.0 Roadmap published
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2011, 07:21:32 pm »
Hi Sam,

I think you totally misunderstood the Zentyal roadmap.

Very possibly. And I'll be happy to admit that. :)

If that's true, then the confusion is rooted in the nature of the Zentyal desktop proposal, as near as I can tell. For example, it seems to me that you are describing something different than I've heard before--something more like what Zentyal Desktop is like now rather than as a Zentyal-branded Ubuntu desktop serving as part of a total office solution, as described (I thought), by everybody else.

As for VDI, that example really means nothing as far as Zentyal goes outside the LTSP-is-to-be-preferred conversation. If Zentyal is willing to entertain LTSP support as a core feature, why not the easy-to-implement, relatively speaking, support for already existing DHCP functionality? Can you see how all this might read as putting non-Ubuntu solutions, broadly speaking, into special use case as a matter of general policy? Especially if the condition for core inclusion is widespread community support in a Linux-oriented community?

Consider the UPS support conversation instead, to understand how easy it is for me to get lost by Zentyal roadmap priorities. I don't mean that as a criticism, but simply as an example of conversation about priorities I cannot grasp. No doubt the limitation is with me.

Perhaps the real problem is just one of timing in my case alone. While I've tried to keep my thoughts in line with a broad category of small business and non-profit operations, maybe I've missed something important along the way. In my world of rural Michigan, there are people who are so technically challenged that they see technology as little more than fancy typewrites. The rest are still technically challenged, but they are young and have a vision, driven largely by their consumer experience, of technology without walls--so-called digital natives. Us digital immigrants seem to them to lack vision. I've been trying to lobby for a Zentyal that endorses their wall-less vision, since it's those people that will replace me very much sooner than later. It's very possible that Zentyal has done just that and I completely missed it. My very sincere apologies if that's the case.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 07:37:12 pm by Sam Graf »