Author Topic: Zarafa vs. Roundcube  (Read 5731 times)

Darky

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Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« on: September 01, 2011, 03:38:07 pm »
Hallo,

I installed Zarafa and Webmail on a Zentyal server. Unfortunately I am not happy with Zarafa:
- Can not handle russian mails
- The forwards replace the original recipient

So I wanted to change to roundcube. However, Roundcube won't get the mails, even if the recipient has no Zarafa account, because Zarafa is still used as relay: temporary failure. Command output: Unable to login for user mailtest, error code: 0x8004010F

Is there any way to get Roundcube to work once Zarafa is installed? Zarafa seems to fetch the mails away :)

greetings

christian

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 03:57:37 pm »
I'm definitely not Zarafa user so I might be not 100% accurate with my explanation. Take it with a bit of salt...

When it comes to receive and deliver mail with Zentyal, there is one single (I mean common) MTA (Postfix) always used, with or without Zarafa.

If Zarafa is not used, then MDA relies on Procmail to deliver mails to /var/vmail/domain/user folder.
Then Dovecot is used as POP3/IMAP4 server providing access to mailbox. You can access it using Thunderbird.
In case you want/need to use "webmail", Roundcube is implementing Web based IMAP client connecting to Dovecot.

This is what I call "standard" mail design.

If Zarafa is used, then Postfix is still used but MDA (as far as I know) is not Procmail but Zarafa. Standard access to mailbox is supposed to be Outlook or Zarafa web interface (or Zarafa client).
Because some users have other POP3/IMAP4 clients, Zarafa is implementing POP3/IMAP listener so that you can access your mail with, e.g. Thunderbird.

However, if you read carefully above description, you will understand that you can't have both "standard" and Zarafa mail backbone. I'm not sure stopping Zarafa is enough to have Postfix conf changed (back) to Procmail. I'll let Zentyal team react on this.

I'm spending time explaining this at quite low level of detail because there is a lot of confusion with mail service and willingness to use Zarafa without clear understanding of what is does vs. what is doesn't, or, even worst, to swing between standard mail and Zarafa. Doable but not easy without clear technical understanding  8)

I hope I'm clarifying the matter here, not adding more entropy  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 07:54:07 am by christian »

ichat

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2011, 01:11:41 am »
@cristian, for this you got my kudo's  and a +1 on this forum, exelent explaination...   

your best bet here is to  either  rid zarafa all the way  OR  fix the language problems   based on zarafa's own  support channels... it may or may not be possible  to fix your  troubles...   and thair may o may not be language specific  patches you can apply to this software. its up to you  'the end admin'  to figure it out...

but the Opensource packages of zarafa  (tar's)  and the official zarafa comunity docs   may be a best first bet.
All tips hints and advices are based on my personal experience.
As I try my best to be as accurate as possible, following my advice is always at your own risk,
I claim absolutely NO responsibility in any way!

christian

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2011, 08:04:32 am »
I had no time yesterday to add drawing that is maybe clearer. It's done now  ;)
This shows high level view, without anti-spam, greylist... neither showing client sending mail to Postfix... because topic here is to understand how Zarafa compares to Roundcube.

Adding port numbers could have helped but drawing was then a bit to heavy.
What has to be kept in mind is that:
- Zarafa is one single "box"
- Postfix config decides whenever mail are transported to Procmail or to Zarafa. One or the other but not both.
- if Zarafa with IMAP gateway is enabled, it conflict with Dovecot
- Roundcube accesses Dovecot....

All clear ? then let's create some mess for the fun: Roundcube could be configure to access Zarafa IMAP listener  :-X  ;D  but does it make sense as Zarafa comes with its own web interface  ???

Darky

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2011, 10:57:17 am »
Quote
then let's create some mess for the fun: Roundcube could be configure to access Zarafa IMAP listener  :-X  ;D  but does it make sense as Zarafa comes with its own web interface  ???

Funny idea. But I don't think it makes sense, since the one thing you want to avoid is the Zarafa database.

Just for your information. There is an unofficial way to add support for different languages, but it includes messing with the mySQL Database. I do not want to do this without a test server.

So, does someone know what happens if I disable Zarafa? Will the configuration for Roundcube made automatically? And secondly, once I deactivate Zarafa and then reactivate it later will the user settings be saved?

christian

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2011, 11:19:29 am »
My point with Rouncube used as Zarafa interface was more matter of joke. It doesn't really make sense  ;D ;D
Removing Zaraf doesn't for sure enable Rouncube. For this you have to install (if not done) and configure "Webmail" module.

Is Zarafa deactivation enough to have Postfix reverted back to Procmail transport? I don't know because I never tried Zarafa.
Be aware that in case you want to swing between standard mail and Zarafa, mail migration might be required if you intend to keep all already received in one single mailbox.

Some users have moved from Rouncube to Zarafa (and maybe also the opposite). I hope they will intervene here to share their feedback.

ichat

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2011, 01:33:00 pm »
migrating the datatype of your zarafa mysql db will NOT be so hard as it sounds..  ...

just look at the zarafa forums how to do it,  than  try installing it on a seperate box  (or inside a virtual machine)   as last  remove  zarafa from zentyal   than install it  from the original (By hand).... set the db in the right way... and add it back to zentyal...   

or even just change the zentyal .mass  config  and   create a new database with the correct typing...   

there are even ways to convert the  data-type of a db  inline without even  messing with the rest,  but that cn potantially rest data intergrety and might destroy your setup... do propper backups and read corresponding  documentation... 

if you atempted this, and can discribe what dificulties you had or did not have, a future version of zentyal-zarafa  can be updated to support your settings as well...
All tips hints and advices are based on my personal experience.
As I try my best to be as accurate as possible, following my advice is always at your own risk,
I claim absolutely NO responsibility in any way!

christian

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2011, 01:55:30 pm »
if you atempted this, and can discribe what dificulties you had or did not have, a future version of zentyal-zarafa  can be updated to support your settings as well...

 :P optimistic view  ;) but possible... I'm curious to read Zentyal team view on this.
And I don't see neither how Zafar integration into Zentyal could be significantly different from what we have now. But I don't really know Zarafa, so I do not exclude that you could be right  8)

ichat

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2011, 04:21:32 pm »
as far as i understand, zarafa is verry modular and not the entire 'open source part of zarafa, is used with the zentyal install, since  some parts are either hard or ompossible to intergrate, are  contraditing to zentyal current use (example services already setup with zentyal)... ore may or may not be  to resource heavy for zentyal to intergrate them (or just to complicated) im not exactly sure... 

BUT  running zarafa on a diferent database either a complete other  like  postgresql (it is possible but dont ever ask me how)...  or just a diferent   db-backend / data set  with mysql...    in either way   the  php.conf may need some tweaking  as wel as you should  login to a mysql admin and  create a custom database with custom language properties  (for example    unicode instead of utf8)    and that in turn may  f*ck up your  php script so that may need some work to...

 a  big project like zarafa is SURE to have such documentation...  im just to lazy and uninterested to test.. no'r do i speak any language that needs this...  (so it would be impossible to test this).
All tips hints and advices are based on my personal experience.
As I try my best to be as accurate as possible, following my advice is always at your own risk,
I claim absolutely NO responsibility in any way!

Darky

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2011, 10:32:40 am »
If someone is interested: Zarafa 6 does not support utf-8. There are some tricks to get it to work. In my opinion they are not suitable if it is running on a server many people rely on. Zarafa 7 does support utf-8. So I will wait for an easy update in Zentyal and Zarafa

jsalamero

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Re: Zarafa vs. Roundcube
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2011, 10:47:52 pm »
Zentyal 2.2 includes Zarafa 7 support, and in fact is the version installed by default.