Virtualizing the Server

[vshaulsk]

I am looking into virtualize different components of my test Zetnyal server (beta 2.1 version).  However I am not sure which functions I should virtualize.
I know that creating a VM web-server that host content for the outside world is a good idea for security.  I would assume making your file server virtual will also be a good idea.
However I do not know if I should split up other server functions.

When I look at Zentyal I see that it is split up into 5 categories.  Gateway, UTM, infrastructure, file server, communications server.  Should I install one of them on the physical machine and virtualize the rest or only virtualize some of them?
What do you guys think???

[Christophe]

Hi,

now vmware ESXi 4.1 is free.

You could install Esxi on your physical server, and virtualize zentyal as you want.

i have 3 zentyal server, and 1 ubuntu server for my dmz. each one is a VM

[vshaulsk]

ok on your zentyal servers which modules do you have running on each one??  I am trying to figure out what is the best way to split it up.

For instance should I run one server with the gateway, utm, and DHCP functions and the second server as Zentyal Samba  and another one as the mail or web server???

I guess that is really at the heart of my questions.  To have a very good functioning machine which is secure, how should I split up the functions of Zentyal?

Thank you !!!

[Christophe]

i dont know if is the best choice :
1 physical server : ESXI 4.1

4 VM:
1 zentyal Gateway with : proxy; vpn; mailserver; slave ldap
1 zentyal ldap master : juste ldap master
1 zentyal DHCP and PDC : DHCP; slave ldap, file and printer sharing and Webmin to manage files
1 ubuntu server 10.04 : LAMP; Bind and webmin to manage Bind.

If you have a better idea, share it

[Sam Graf]

I think different people have different ideas about these things, making an "ideal" setup hard to quantify. For example, I prefer to keep gateway- and infrastructure-type services on physical machines. I don't see any benefit to virtualizing small business network infrastructure and some benefit to not having everything on one server (though having multiple facilities influences me there). Virtualizing the desktop, mail servers, web servers--the stuff I think of as user-facing network services--makes sense to me, just as keeping the backbone of the network on physical servers makes sense to me. But of course, that's just how I think.

The only real practical limitation, it seems to me, is the server hardware. What can the server effectively virtualize? At least some of the rest of the deployment decisions are about administration philosophy and preference.

Just for what it's worth.

[vshaulsk]

Ok Thank you for your input and information !!!

This is what I was looking for. 

For my personal use.... I have had no problem just installing all the functions of Zentyal on the physical machine along with subsonic + truecyrpt + webmin.  Everything works and since it is not critical if the machine goes down it is the one server in my house. 

However I have been helping my friend out by setting up an office server for his chiropractor/physical therapy office (before this they had nothing setup and found out later that one of their employes gave herself remote access to the systems and was stealing from them).  They basically have 4 people full time and another 6 part time people.

They are using a system very close to mine.  Just basic desktop components.  AMD 1090T hexacore cpu + 8 gigs of ram.  They have 4 disk drives basically split into two software raid1 arrays.  They use one for the OS and the second of storing files.  They also have an external that they use for backup.  The serer has and UPS as well.

With the next version of zentyal having a VM module I was thinking of splitting up their server for better function and security. (first will learn on my own system).  This is why I am trying to figure out the best way of performing this task.  I am not sure for that few people there will be any advantages, but what do you think?

[Christophe]

i dont know how work VM module in zentyal. i installed one day, and just see an option to start VM in auto after boot. Now i use stable release.
I dont know if you need virtual box.

I cant help you tu use this module. But i could help if you want use vmware esxi.

[vshaulsk]

I was thinking of using esxi since you can install it directly on the bare metal components.

However I think I might run into a problem because I am just using desktop components and esxi does not seem to be compatible with them.  Maybe I will give it a try and see what happens

[Christophe]

I'm not sur to understand what you are saying for "desktop component". I'm french.
In fact you just need install esxi on your physical server. You put a local ip static. after install you never need keyboard, mouse or screen. you can unplug everything.

on your client pc : install vSphere hypervisor 4.1 (free also) and connect it with esxi server.

Now you can manage your server with your windpws desktop and your VM.

Its really easy. a game for children !

[vshaulsk]

When I say desktop components I mean.... my server uses regular hardware you would buy for a desktop pc.  I am using a regular AMD 1090T processor on an MSI desktop motherboard with 8 gigs of DDR3-1600 ram.  I have one 160 gig drive, two 500 gig drives, and seven 2 TB drives.
When I look at the website for esxi I don't see my hardware on the compatible list.......

Also what about raid setup?  Currently my seven 2TB disks are setup in a software raid6 and my two 500gig disks are also setup in a software raid1 for the OS and /Home directory.  How is raid implemented under esxi ?

[Christophe]

i understand your question.i can't help you about raid. i dont use it. I just know Virtual disk limited to 256GB maximum.

[vshaulsk]

That is a problem.  Maybe I can't even create a system atleast for myself using my current functions.

At the very least I was hoping that I could create a virtual file server and mount under /mnt my software raid6 (not as virtual disk).... maybe this is not possible to do.  I really don't have any experience with VM.

[half_life]

Most of the other hypervisors allow you to use LVM partitions for the virtual machine instead of container files.  I have a production systems that use the KVM hypervisor (Ubuntu server)  and a Xen hypervisor (Centos server) at home.  Both play well when using LVM.  Did I mention it is much faster this way compared to a container file?  On both setups, Zentyal (2.0) with almost all services installed is virtualised.  LVM and fast hardware RAID are very important to running Zentyal well virtualised.  Also, just a note,  if virtualising Zentyal it is important to give it enough ram to avoid using swap.  My production systems are using 4 processors and 6 gig of ram to support a 27 seat office.  I do not use Zentyals VOIP solution and instead have Elastix installed alongside in another VM (one cpu and one gig of ram).  I haven't had a look at Zentyals 2.2 beta yet, but plan on looking into it this week.

[robb]

ESXi 4.1 is quite picky on hardware. You better check the vmware esxi 4.x whitebox hcl

But to create an esxi 4.x compatible server, it shouldn't cost too much money. For about 300 euro you should be able to buy the Servercase, Powersupply, Motherboard, CPU and Memory. If you already have the diskdrives, you have a decent ESXi4.1 server.

[vshaulsk]

Unfortunately for me creating a new server is not an option.  I will have to go with the hardware I already have.... I checked an it is not compatible with the vmware ESXi.
I will have to stick with either virtualbox or KVM.

After some searching and reading the replies to this post I think I will try the following setup.

On the physical machine I will install Samba PDC and print server since I already have a software raid6 made of physical disks which is used just for data (I could not find a way to mount a physical array on a virtual machine... very possible it is just from inexperience)..... On that same machine I will install my UPS management interface and VM module(Zentyal 2.2)

I will create a VM machine which just runs LDAP as a master
another VM machine running Gateway, DNS, DHCP, and VPN
I will try to create a 3rd VM for mail server and a 4th for webserver

I do however have some questions.
1) does this sound possible and is this an alright setup?
2) Would I install the firewall and IDS modules on all the servers or just the one which contains the gateway??
3) Would I install the zarafa module on the mail server or one of the other ones?
2) I also currently run subsonic and would like to retain that function.... any idea which server I would install it under? Would it be the web server or would it be the samba server?
3) Also I was thinking of installing something like Alfresco or Joomla (have never used anything like these programs before, but would like to see what they are about)... from what I understand I would install them on the webserver?

Thank you for any and all feedback and help !!!!