Author Topic: "Save changes" -- save WHAT???  (Read 2350 times)

VitRom

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"Save changes" -- save WHAT???
« on: April 10, 2010, 06:22:37 pm »
WTF with "Save changes" turns red w/o any modifications?

Just a four mins ago I've web-logged into a fresh ebox uptimed for about a two days. Previous weblogin was a two hrs before for a twenty mins while I've looked over Events etc. and "Save" stills green. Now I've went through Events / Log observer / Config and then back to Events without ANY modification and "Save changes" turns red! Why?!?

So I'm a bit surprised. WTF shall I "save" while I've changed nothing? What changes exactly? And what was changed really?

BTW this is not only case when a "Save" shows that something need to b saved while nothing was changed by operator.

Seems like this Great Something lives their own life in their own world :)

Sam Graf

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Re: "Save changes" -- save WHAT???
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2010, 08:03:18 pm »
I've also seen that behavior. In some cases it seems to be a one-time behavior (as in the scenario you described), and in others (e.g., restart), recurring or intermittently recurring. I was troubled by it at first, especially on restart back in 1.0 (which I was doing a lot as I learned how things work), especially since eBox's dialog insisted that I had altered some configuration by hand when I had done no such thing.

Since eBox writes and updates configuration files as it sees fit (which is part of its job), it need not be always clear to the end user what triggers a configuration update and so a "Save." I don't always understand why eBox updates this or that module after I changed the configuration in some other module. Even though I don't know the trigger for this "un-caused" save behavior (and see no reason to know, since I use eBox to reduce my need to know), I don't see it as a deep mystery either. I suspect certain events or series of events cause eBox to clean up or initialize services regardless of user intervention. I do agree that it's disconcerting until it becomes part of the known eBox routine.

That said, maybe one of the developers will provide a better answer and detail the basic mechanics of unsolicited saves.

VitRom

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Re: "Save changes" -- save WHAT???
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2010, 10:40:31 pm »
Well, will wait for smbdy of devs.

The worst thing is absence of any detailed... well, just "any" -- information abt planned changes. And even "normal" eBox install from time to time can do some strange things -- just for their own fun. In such strange cases loose all changes by logout then login and redo it all again looks more clear and safe.

But eBox team already did it -- we all seen a good sample of pre-action informer -- enabling some module on "module" page shows fine info abt what will b done.

Sam Graf

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Re: "Save changes" -- save WHAT???
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2010, 11:48:56 pm »
Except that the behavior isn't arbitrary. If eBox detects the need to write unsolicited configuration changes, it surely will again eventually no matter how often one exits without saving changes.

If eBox can't be trusted in this case, why should it be trusted at all? Just because I ticked a box or selected something from a drop-down doesn't mean eBox will have better sense during a save. Since it has never caused me a problem in production to let it do the save, I don't think we have a problem.

sixstone

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Re: "Save changes" -- save WHAT???
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 10:16:02 am »
Hello VitRom and Sam,

Just a four mins ago I've web-logged into a fresh ebox uptimed for about a two days. Previous weblogin was a two hrs before for a twenty mins while I've looked over Events etc. and "Save" stills green. Now I've went through Events / Log observer / Config and then back to Events without ANY modification and "Save changes" turns red! Why?!?

Some of the tables are generated on-demand (that is, when the user takes a look on them) and this generates a set of configuration settings without user intervention. This happens in Events module in several parts of them as you have already pointed out. I think the more feasible solution for this would be save that configuration in our backend without restarting the service at all. But this is not valid for all cases...

So I'm afraid to tell you the solution is not an easy one. :(

Quote
Seems like this Great Something lives their own life in their own world :)

XDDD

I think the same sometime. Think of the lines of code that eBox codebase is... [1]

Best regards,

[1] https://www.ohloh.net/p/ebox/analyses/latest
My secret is my silence...

VitRom

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Re: "Save changes" -- save WHAT???
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 08:18:31 pm »
Hi sixstone,
Some... are generated on-demand... I think the more feasible solution for this would be save that configuration in our backend...
I think there's no need for some solution right now but instead it pls note that eBox IMO tends to b a flexible appliance but not a static firmware, am I right?

So a detailed messages about any changes that system's internals will apply to is a good starting point for an immediate "in-field" troubleshuting and more useful for fighting bugs (and proposing possible suggestions) by endusers directly.

Quote
Think of the lines of code that eBox codebase is...
A very big jump at the end of a chart looks anxiously :)