Author Topic: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!  (Read 37172 times)

J. A. Calvo

  • Zentyal Staff
  • Zen Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1986
  • Karma: +67/-3
    • View Profile
    • http://blogs.zentyal.org/jacalvo
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2014, 08:24:20 am »
Jose I had a go with Zarafa and my logic was to get it up and running on 3.5 and then get the Zentyal module going.

With a lot of major changes also about to take part with the move to 3.5 > 4.0 I just feel its pointless creating a module yet.

I did have a go at just repackaging the zarafa module with zbuildtools but it failed and like I say it doesn't feel like it would be worth while yet.

When 4.0 is released I will have to see how things go but so far the reverse proxy and removal of apache seem large obstacles but until 4.0 I dunno.

Well, daily builds of 4.0 will be available very soon, and they will include most of the changes already, so maybe you can start working on that without wait for the final release :)

In any case, thanks for your effort trying to resurrect the module!
Zentyal Server Lead Developer

StuartNaylor

  • Guest
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2014, 11:06:19 am »
I have done enough with the setup on 3.5 https://forum.zentyal.org/index.php/topic,22332.msg88121.html#msg88121

There is enough there community to get Zarafa going all that is missing is the GUI from zentyal.

Gonna wait to 4.0 as haven't a clue what is going to happen about a webserver?

Sogo must be hosted on something but what where and how 4.0 and will give it a good go.

Also I did a roundcube setup and the new roundcube on dovecot actually is quite good also.

Kolab have a calendar module for roundcube and its pretty damn good if anybody is interested in seeing if they can mod it for zentyal.

But again 4.0.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 12:21:36 pm by StuartNaylor »

thorsten

  • Guest
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2014, 10:50:01 am »
OK, I will miss Radius  :(

But...
No Web-Server   ???
No Backup  >:(

This is Nonsens - lets try alternatives.

Sorry and best regards
Thorsten


illunis

  • Guest
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2014, 03:01:33 pm »
I can only say that i am very happy i never proposed Zentyal to my company....i would be jobless now....

cya all

 :-X

ctek

  • Zen Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
  • Karma: +6/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2014, 02:50:26 pm »
There is a lesson to be learned here for us the community and for the company / devs.
Some things change in ways that we do not agree...

I think Zentyal V4+ will be a good replacement for a Linux AD/Exchange instead of Microsoft. This is a good thing for those who are looking for this.
For the rest of the community (In my humble opinion) this is not what we had in mind, I for one, was looking for a SBS in a box solution to replace all those MS and Linux boxes.

For now let's wish the Zentyal staff and devs good luck.
The rest of us can still use the previous versions of Zentyal (2.0 - 3.3). Or use a combination of Gateway/Firewall/Server from different provides.

If there is a "demand" we can start a thread of "Alternative setup solutions and configs " to compensate for the dropped modules.
And of course if the Zentyal guys do not mind starting such a thread.

I wish you luck and best regards
Bogdan

PS: if i offended someone please edit/correct my post.






J. A. Calvo

  • Zentyal Staff
  • Zen Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1986
  • Karma: +67/-3
    • View Profile
    • http://blogs.zentyal.org/jacalvo
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2014, 02:02:15 am »
If there is a "demand" we can start a thread of "Alternative setup solutions and configs " to compensate for the dropped modules.
And of course if the Zentyal guys do not mind starting such a thread.

It's perfect if community can document about alternatives to previous Zentyal functionality, anyway, as we've stated several times, there will be also documentation provided by the Zentyal team about that ;)
Zentyal Server Lead Developer

-pekr-

  • Zen Monk
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #66 on: August 26, 2014, 02:48:44 pm »
If there is a "demand" we can start a thread of "Alternative setup solutions and configs " to compensate for the dropped modules.
And of course if the Zentyal guys do not mind starting such a thread.

It's perfect if community can document about alternatives to previous Zentyal functionality, anyway, as we've stated several times, there will be also documentation provided by the Zentyal team about that ;)

I really don't know, who does business development in terms of your company, but maybe you should gyus better all fire yourself and close the shop, no? :-)

Well, not sure it was funny, but what surely is not funny is the 4.0 roadmap. Many of us here can have rather good understanding of what and why is happening with the product. On the other hand, many of us came here with certain needs. I am surely not alone migrating to Zentyal from ClearOS, and kind of loving the product. It works and it has everything I need.

But! You should ask yourself if the community is big enough to do any modules development. For many of us, the reason to further follow Zentyla, will just vanish. I do remember, how my favourite Rebol language got itself into the point of irrelevance, because at certain point at time, the company and their investors thought, that they will do some products for corporations. They even created nice product, but they lost many crucial members of the community.

As someone already said - if someone really needs Exchange, then he buys Exchange. It will be interesting to watch, how successful you are going to be in the 4.0+ era. Of course I wish you a luck ...

ichat

  • Zen Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 798
  • Karma: +28/-16
  • RTFM!
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #67 on: August 26, 2014, 06:50:36 pm »
back for a bit because i can,

i think that with opting for the removal of certian aspecs zentyal might (or might not) grow towards a better solution to its goal,
but at the same time it breaks a lot of essential stuff going on...

the problem here lies with that zentyal is really a verry high level management interface, which for most novice sysadmins is a "good thing TM".

but there is and always has been a key issue...  zentyal for example wants to also do  dhcp  and other network stuf. where it shouldn't  dont mess with my  router/firwall/utm gateway servers...  by now we should ALL know that zentyal is decent at best if we look at lan / wan management.  even in small  (less than 10 workstations), setups  a dualcore xeon E4xxx  had issues routing my 100mbit wan connection, and  stuf like youtube online games or torrents would hogg the system down to... well     you really dont want to know...



so instead of droping the webserver (whitch should have been improved  (like i have said  about 200 times), rather than abandoned,  and NUT  which could also use some work (you really do want to use an  Uninteruptible power supply on your office server)

why not instead drop dhcpd  and the firewall module...   


take pfsence for example https://www.pfsense.org/about-pfsense/features.html  has loads and loads and loads more features than zentyal could ever hope to get...   why not just  give a screen at the end of your setup wizzard,   telling people what settings to choose in there network management tool...  rather than doing it yourself poorly...


as for  removing webserver,  8 out of every 10 offices run custom software crap on thair windows servers,   either build in ms accees or vb or what not,  when migrating those offices to linux  requires them to also  change thos badd  build it in exel or access habbits,   what better way is there than to offer  of the shelve  wwwroots  where you can host any php app you can get (or build),  prefeably with some aditional tooling to supply them with  user / group authentication  or restriction etc.   

the default configs of sutch should probably be a default created   /srv/www/dns-name/  folder stucture,  with  a log folder, a httpdocs  root folder  and a  config file to override  apache.conf and php.ini  as well as aproprate  dns atributes for the domain. 

intergrating 3rd party aplications into your  user-managment / office email etc  infra structure is way more importand and a lot less trivial than managing a nework,  withc any  soho-router can already do just fine, if need be

if you want to commit zentyal an office server,  than make it one, that works, and abandon the right modules
All tips hints and advices are based on my personal experience.
As I try my best to be as accurate as possible, following my advice is always at your own risk,
I claim absolutely NO responsibility in any way!

Escorpiom

  • Zen Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 897
  • Karma: +25/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #68 on: August 26, 2014, 10:40:48 pm »
I absolutely agree with ichat. +1.
If you are going to drop modules, then drop the right ones.
I had hopes to be able to maintain Zentyal as a Office server, running web server, zoneminder and samba.
The network stuff could be migrated to, for example, pfsense.
Zentyal could be a perfect complement to this.

But with the webserver being dumped next, I don't see how it would work for me and the rest of my organization.
I really wish the Zentyal devs would reconsider leaving the webserver in, as it is otherwise an excellent product.

Cheers.
 
 
Marcus' Rule:
Blanks & capitals = avoid it and you'll avoid problems...

Torsten73

  • Zen Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: +6/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #69 on: August 26, 2014, 10:45:09 pm »
I really don´t know what to do in the future. Till now, zentyal has given me many problems, i am far away of seeing it a fully working due to many problems when setting up and using it for just the basics like DC, Outlook and ActiveSync. And i also miss backups including mails, which is essential for a mail server.

Many things are half way done, its getting more and more a openchange distro than a sbs replacement.

Let me list some of major problems i noticed:
  • not everything is working on ssl. trying to do this will brake SOGo Webmailer
  • activesync, no clear way (z-push or sogo-activesync) still no decission in 4.0
  • no word about activesync and ssl it must be standard today
  • certificates for outlook are still making problems, maybe because the poor documentation
  • firewall is much to difficult compared to ipfire, i agree ichats oppinion
Next thing is that i don´t see the power in this community to maintain own packages for zentyal. Who can do this? The active community seems to be small, and most of them seems to be (like me) only soho admins or users. Have a look in the beta forum, where only a handful people are trying to test beta iso´s. Some of best knowledge users are leaving, this makes me saad and gives me not much hope for the future.

I also agree, that cutting the gateway functions is not the right way. I also thing that integrating a well working other projects is a much better way that giving it back to the community.

For me it seems, that the main aspects are loosing there focus. A sbs replacement must have something better than MS. The product price is not the main thing, but it should be easy to set up, maintain, absolutly secure and stable and devices indipendent. Can we found this in the roadmap ? Not really.
I am also on a turning point. Shall i try zentyal furthermore or better switch to an other solution. I the last moths i spend to many hours in getting foreward  :(
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 08:29:41 am by Torsten73 »
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zentyal 3.5 (offline) unter Ubuntu12.04.3 YAVDR 0.5 als KVM Host
Action Pack Abo with a running Exc. 2013 :-)

c4rdinal

  • Zen Samurai
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2014, 07:52:31 am »
Just wanna express my disappointment with the 4.0 Roadmap. I feel the same like most of the active members. I suppose v4.0 simply lack the spirit of a fully functional SBS server.

I hope Zentyal will try to reconsider their plans...
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 07:54:11 am by c4rdinal »

ichat

  • Zen Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 798
  • Karma: +28/-16
  • RTFM!
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2014, 01:27:45 pm »
well basically if they dont,


i would consider finding a programmer,  and setting up some kickstarter project to finance the development of an office server pluging for openmediavault,

as it stands they at least have a more robust way of storing and providing your data both via  cifs/smb  and  nfs.  as well as a more flexible way of managing and mounting data stores.

debian based as it is it wouldn't be impossible to add groupware and usermanagement.   paired with for example pfsence it somehow makes more sense these days.


All tips hints and advices are based on my personal experience.
As I try my best to be as accurate as possible, following my advice is always at your own risk,
I claim absolutely NO responsibility in any way!

CNServices

  • Zen Monk
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2014, 03:07:57 pm »
Interesting.

I’m willing to fund for a year a website to be used to explore the possibilities. (Before I agree to that I would want to make certain things clear. In general, I’m not willing to provide anyone, including me, with a free [bully] pulpit or soap box about anything, for or against anything. No exceptions. That’s not negotiable.)

I’ll be away until the second week of September. If I see interest when I get back, I’ll move forward.

timroijers

  • Zen Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2014, 11:39:29 am »
Installed Zentyal 4.0, got it up and running.. Works fine.... BUT!

Can't believe that they actually dropped the backup, webserver and ups module while Jabber still exists... gotta be a joke right?
I really see no reason why I (or anyone else) should upgrade (or rather downgrade) to Zentyal 4.0.

tigerman

  • Zen Monk
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #74 on: September 07, 2014, 05:48:50 pm »
All I want for Christmas is...   Working Openchange (and Active Sync)

I have joined the Zentyal community only recently having been quite happy to 'roll my own' services using standard Linux tools but the one thing I have not been able to provide is Exchange Server with contacts and calendars on mobile devices so, of course, I am VERY HAPPY INDEED with the roadmap.

I feel for the folks used to an all-in-one solution but I'm not so sure it really matters these days.  If you run your servers virtualised then then the customer doesn't care if you have one or 10, they only see one box.  So, run NUT on the hardware, run a separate Apache server, RADIUS server, the more you split these boxes the better, each VM has it's individual purpose.

I even run a separate Ubuntu file server, albeit joined to the domain, so I can reboot Zentyal without killing the shares :-)

Question:  To the folks who lament the removal of some of the modules: "What do your customers do for Contacts and Calendars on their devices?"

I really haven't seen a good replacement for OL and Exchange other than Zentyal yet.

So, I think that Zentyal is the only hope that small IT shops have to be able to compete with Office 365 and give customers the facilities they demand or expect these days.  The ONLY* bit that we really can't do any other way is Openchange so please Ignacio et al just get on and give us that :-)

SimonF

PS - I am looking for help installing Z at customer sites and happy to pay if anyone here is able to assist... Staffordshire (UK)

* OK, not the ONLY way but manually setting up Samba4 and OC and ZPush is VERY scarey.