Author Topic: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!  (Read 30249 times)

J. A. Calvo

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Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« on: July 22, 2014, 02:21:44 pm »
Zentyal Development Team is glad to announce the roadmap for Zentyal Server 4.0! Zentyal 4.0 is a new Community Edition, that will be published in October 2014 and with this release Zentyal's drop-in replacement for Microsoft® Exchange Server gets out of technology preview! Due to this, most of the development effort of the next months will focus on stabilization and improvement of the mail and mail-related directory features. Simultaneously, large effort will be put in establishing the necessary Quality Assurance procedures to guarantee the stability of Zentyal Server. The code freeze is expected on September 15th, 2014.

Besides focusing primarily on the improvement and consolidation of both OpenChange and Samba4 integration with the goal of providing a drop-in replacement for Microsoft® Exchange Server, some additional improvements will also take place. The L2TP module will be restructured and improved, migration from Zentyal Server 3.5 to 4.0 will be made as smooth as possible and the free configuration backup - the most popular feature of the Free Zentyal Account - will be made available directly through the Zentyal Server UI without having to register a Free Zentyal Account. This release will run on Ubuntu Server 14.04 LTS.

In addition, the Zentyal Development Team has taken the decision to remove a number of modules in order to focus on Zentyal Server’s goal: Offer a drop-in replacement for Windows® Small Business Server and Microsoft® Exchange Server. The dropped modules are: IPS, UPS management (NUT), Backup (Duplicity), Monitor (together with the Zentyal Remote client), RADIUS, Webserver and Webmail (Roundcube), IPsec (replaced by a new module supporting only L2TP). Also the Free Zentyal Account will be discontinued. Documentation will be provided on configuring some of these services with specific software and naturally, community members interested in maintaining any of these modules will be warmly welcome.

The availability of the Zentyal 4.0 Daily Builds for testing will be announced shortly. We strongly encourage everybody interested in a drop-in replacement for Windows Small Business Server and Microsoft® Exchange Server to join the testing effort and submit bug reports and feedback as soon as possible, in order to make this the best Zentyal release ever!

You can check the details at: http://www.zentyal.org/roadmap/zentyal-4-0-roadmap/
Zentyal Server Lead Developer

robb

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2014, 10:52:26 pm »
Seeing most of the current modules being dropped is for a lot of people a major setback. I can understand te logic behind it, but all those features will be missed a lot.

Too bad the community is not capable of maintaining all those modules. I doubt there are enough/any skilled devs in the comunity that can take that job on them.

Maybe we should focus as a community on documentation how to install and configure 3rd party features on a Zentyal server?

royceb

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2014, 11:50:21 pm »
I hear the community a ton when you see the list of continued dropped items.  In the end though I think it is better for Zentyal as a platform to be a specialist rather than a jack of all trades.  More attention on a stable, robust and completely native AD/Exchange setup for me is a sale.  If I wanted security or some other functionality I'd use a different distro like ClearOS or Nethserver.

Keep up the good work Zentyal.

oiaohm

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2014, 06:22:42 am »
Its one thing to be specialist is another to cut own foot off.

RADIUS interesting enough is a feature of SBS server.  To be exact its VPN link ups.   http://wiki.samba.org/index.php/VPN_Single_SignOn_with_Samba_AD VPN Single Sign On kinda requires it.  If RADIUS controls are ending up in the L2TP module everything is fine.  If you are dropping RADIUS off cliff you have problem.

Freeradius provides one web based administration tool as part of the package.  Freeradius Dialup Admin is not the best but its better than nothing.

Some things I do agree with.  Like dropping the zentyal IPS module.   Could you consider pulling a full IPS like Suricata as a sub webpage.   Reality the IPS module in zentyal was never going to keep up with the web interface software designed for it.

Removing the  Webserver functionality worries me for working around some of the limitations.   Will this mean zentyal will leave all web server setting alone or fairly much alone?   So I could set up sub-domains for Suricata and other things to replace the functionality you have just removed.   Like I am not going to miss the IDS module in zentyal if I can cleanly setup Suricata or one of the other program built todo IDS.

I don't want to sound mean.  With IDS I will be happy with zentyal form gone to allow full third parties built for the job in.   The only thing that worries me is how much will zentyal put in my way to prevent using the third party.

royceb problem I have got is this time 1 part that is part of AD/Exchange setup is marked as being cut.  Radius.   Remote logins by VPN Radius is a requirement to be able todo them exactly how Windows does.

Roundcube gone but I guess sogo webmail remains.  This is fine less duplication.

Monitor mostly got in way of using third party IDS systems.

Will NUT the application still be installed and possible with one of its GUI tools like http://knut.prynych.cz/ ?   NUT management removed from web interface is not a disaster.  NUT-Monitor that currently monitors has been merged into the main project with goal to become the "NUT Control Center".   This is another one of my problems. dropping NUT from zentyal web interface if focus is moving to like the "NUT Control Center" or knut.   Lets not reinvent wheels when we don't have to.


Right I can understand the overhead issues.   Now lets see if we can come up with something a little more sane requiring less overhead by allowing other project to pick up the load.   IDS work does not have to be main zentyal interface,  NUT control software again does not have to be main zentyal web interface.

mpnegro

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2014, 01:00:49 pm »
Hy,
So you are going to droop some of the things that I use in my servers, because you wana to replace the Microsoft product? Strange thing, and I really don't like "imitations"...
Ok, I have 2 months to find a replacement to my paid and non paid servers. Wish you luck!

ian

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2014, 01:03:17 pm »
Hello,

What is the alternative for the data backup in the new release ?
Backup the configuration is a must, but also a backup of the data is a must.

So if Zentyal drops duplicity, why the do not implement an other data backup item in the new release 4.0 ?

Best regards,
Ian

StuartNaylor

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2014, 01:36:02 pm »
I think the idea is to keep a small band of experts as trying to support a wide range of technologies with a small crew is just impossible.

I think Robb said it and anyone representing the community should be saying the same.

Code: [Select]
Maybe we should focus as a community on documentation how to install and configure 3rd party features on a Zentyal server?
The only thing that has me head scratching is what do I use for a webserver. I presume apache has gone so we don't have all the reverse proxy complexity (which sucked)

Can we use nginx or whatever sogo is hosted on?

If Zentyal supply a module then really they have to support it. Legally there are probably stipulations.

This doesn't mean duplicity, rysync or any other method isn't there but it will have to be from the community so there is no support stipulations.

I presume if you purchase a subscription then Zentyal will do essentials like backups.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 01:38:21 pm by StuartNaylor »

CNServices

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2014, 04:48:04 pm »
Maybe we should focus as a community on documentation how to install and configure 3rd party features on a Zentyal server?

That may prove important even to small businesses who subscribe. As more modules drop more work (and cost) falls on the business, whether internally or through a third party/additional hardware. The community may be the only cost-effective Zentyal support option for some small businesses versus custom Zentyal support (beyond the scope of the subscription).

That assumes the small business market is important to Zentyal. If Zentyal as a business finds it difficult to keep everything running, it should not be too difficult to imagine the challenges Zentyal is shifting to small businesses.

StuartNaylor

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2014, 05:05:31 pm »
CNServices, Robb I think the pair of you have hit the nail on the head.

I think when it comes to support and solutions of something like a small business server, it is one of those it sounds simple until you actually manage it.

I have always worked in the SMB arena and wow its a complex and diverse enterprise that has a lot of need for a community backed small business server.

I really hope Zentyal make a rock solid base and provide premium support subscriptions.

Also I really wish they would broaden there horizon, provide a market place of community solutions.

Packages, software, support, hardware to documentation based very much on current app styles of high volume and low cost.

There is a huge market out there which would be beneficial to many business's.

I am back to my call for contribution licensing, there are so many ways that people can contribute to a project and sadly the reality of open source is so many people not contributing.

Personally I would love to see a contribution license scheme that allows contributors to freely trade whilst making a few bucks off the many who don't contribute.

This allows for a mass and diversity of not only product but industry specific product and Zentyal see the light make a market place and make some money. :)

Its a contribution protection method that values contribution. The only people hit for a few bucks are the leachers and that is only after there free trial ends.

If they don't contribute before the trial termination then it might need a few bucks.

Opensource is a new business model and there are many ways to offer more.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 05:17:10 pm by StuartNaylor »

idr_mito

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2014, 09:42:36 pm »
Hello Developer Team,

Anyone knows if Zentyal will provide an upgrade from 3.2 Professional Edition (12.04 lts) to this 4.0 (14.04 lts)?


Torsten73

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2014, 09:43:41 pm »
I have read nothing about "External mail retrieval" which has been dropped with 3.4 . I can´t believe, that a goal focus is to be a own mailserver without using an isp´s relay.
I would like to read a clear statement about it.

I hope 4.0 is really a stable and fully functional base. Without cutting more and more modules. Good luck.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zentyal 3.5 (offline) unter Ubuntu12.04.3 YAVDR 0.5 als KVM Host
Action Pack Abo with a running Exc. 2013 :-)

oiaohm

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2014, 02:01:14 am »
Ok the idea might be hey we keep on cutting back you will have to install third party modules and then have to work on third party modules for zentyal.   I will make this clear now.  With the removal of External Mail retrieval I installed webmin with that I can configure External Mail retrieval.    This is the problem lot of the missing features is not going to bother me as I am dependant on the zentyal interface to perform them.  Zentyal interface stopping doing stuff means I now can use webmin todo more.

So I have a serous question.   Should Zentyal just give up on its own interface and instead choose like webmin and integrate that.

The elephant in the room is so far there is no mention of IPv6 support that Zentyal has been missing.    Webmin has IPv6 and I have ISP's with IPv6.

The hard reality of Open Source projects sometimes you just have to admit you don't have the resources and choose a different solutions that will have other people doing other solutions will work on you with.   Webmin is used by many other parties.

Yes the other reality is that I will be more likely to look at making a module for Webmin than a module for Zentyal.  Why I can take a webmin module everywhere.

Of course there is a third option coping SBS.   SBS has a simplified interface and the full advanced interface of a normal Windows Server.   Now I don't think most people would be that upset if the removed features were all supported by webmin that also came with Zentyal.   Ok a more complex interface to get job done at times but at least you get the job done.

There are other elephants in the room like Ubuntu commitment to change to systemd.  Webmin already has this covered.


J. A. Calvo

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2014, 09:06:28 am »
Hello Developer Team,

Anyone knows if Zentyal will provide an upgrade from 3.2 Professional Edition (12.04 lts) to this 4.0 (14.04 lts)?

Absolutely, direct upgrade from 3.2 to 4.0 will be provided for professional editions.

There will be of course also an upgrade path from 3.5 to 4.0 for community editions.
Zentyal Server Lead Developer

Gary Schiltz

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2014, 03:19:15 am »
I'm ambivalent about the dropped features. None of them are showstoppers for my installation, so I hope this gives the team time to make the product more rock solid. What I would like to ask, though, is how feasible is it for us developers to add features back in our own local installations/forks?

I've seen a lot of references to "moved to contrib". From a repository standpoint, this appears to mean that "modules" are moved from the "main" subdirectory to the "contrib" subdirectory of "zentyal" (which is one of several GitHub repositories owned by the "Capital Z" Zentyal user). Is there any documentation on how to add modules?

I had originally thought that Zentyal would be a modular system where you could fairly easily add or remove modules (ClearOS calls them "apps" - more trendy terminology, but still the same concept as modules, I think). But from looking at the code quite a bit, I'm thinking I was wrong. Could someone enlighten me a bit?

shadowfire

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Re: Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap Published!
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2014, 05:06:55 am »
I understand the need to make sure you have a rocksolid foundation for Zentyal.  I have known of Zentyal from 1.0 and just recently found Zentyal to be ready for deploying to my customers who still have Win2003 SBS running and want to move on.  Now with the Zentyal 4.0 Roadmap, I guess I am confused as to how you guys came to the decision of moving away from the following modules? Can you give some clarity on this??

Removal of the IPS module   (if Zentyal will be a gateway - then removing this is a mistake)
Removal of the UPS module (NUT) (It seems like this should be included)
Removal of the Backup module (Duplicity)  (no SBS would be complete with out  a backup solution)
Removal of the Monitor module (This seems to set Zentyal a part from other SBS, this gives the Admins a way to track down problems and make sure things look ok)
Removal of the RADIUS module (I don't use this much, but I know in Enterprise settings this will upset balance and flow for those in the Enterprise)
Removal of the Webserver and Webmail module (Roundcube)   (I and many others run websites from their SBS so this will be a hit for us - I guess Roundcube is being replaced with OpenChange Webmail so that won't be an issue)
Removal of the IPsec module (I am sure those who like an availibilty to fine tune their SBS routes and nats and such will miss this module)
Removal of the Free Zentyal Account (I don't use this... I think, so I don't know what this affects)

Could their be another way around getting rid of these modules???  The whole reason I jumped on Zentyal is that it is feature rich and it can provide the solutions I need at my choosing for each client, and it can all be setup, configured and changed in the Zentyal dashboad.

If your still gonna do this removal of modules,  could you take on a more Webmin module availibility to Zentyal?  Where you could allow these modules to be add and removed from the Dashboard.  Could you allow a place to allow the modules to be looked at and cared on by your fellow Zentyal members and community members?  I don't see why you would want to axe something that could be helped through other means.

The questions is... is there another way to allow them to remain and still have the benefit from the modules that I have seen, as I am sure others have seen as well?

I am so far happy with Zentyal 3.2 SP2 and Zentyal 3.5.   Making these cuts seem extreme.  And could put people out to find other homes for there SBS setup.  Putting them on ice to me seems drastic and not in your best interest.

What would it take to keep them in the plans, what is holding you back from keeping them in Roadmap 4.0?

« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 07:56:47 pm by shadowfire »

 

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