Author Topic: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)  (Read 19547 times)

pe.vilain

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2014, 05:26:00 pm »


I shouldn't have to get on the console to install and configure FTP.  That was the whole point of Zentyal; the box that does it all without me setting it up by hand.

They should be enhancing the FTP module instead of removing it.  The vsftpd module can't have taken a lot of resources to maintain.  This is removal of a useful feature, plain and simple.

On the other hand, FTP module was removed because the File Sharing functionality is already covered by Samba in a much more complete way than our limited FTP implementation.

I'll put this out there too, and I know not everyone will agree with me on this, but I value the choice of which protocols are readily available, even if I don't use them all simultaneously.  I do currently use FTP and not Samba on my main Zentyal server.  "We think you should use this protocol, so this other one is going bye-bye" is a very Microsoft/Apple way of thinking that doesn't befit a Linux distro.  Making an open replacement for Active Directory and Exchange is a noble goal... Just don't lose sight of your values in the process.

I pretty think in the same way.

Perhaps I make a mistake but FTP and samba are not designed for the same purpose.

When you have to access remotelly to different servers at the same public IP, FTP is much more flexible no ?

or perhaps a new module like owncloud will be add to make it easier to access file remotely ?



savaj

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2014, 05:33:56 pm »
Does this mean that Zentyal 3.5 will not have LDAP support?

StuartNaylor

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 08:37:28 pm »
It will have a Samba4 Ldap. Singular that will need an open source application such as Samba4 to make an extensible solution.

Bit of bad medicine to make a remedy, something that I am really excited to see a unified solution too.

Ps if you are quick join the samba4 mailing list. I have no idea if I am correct but I am arguing for a link between phpldapadmin and samba4.

Opensource in isolation from other opensource is weaker opensource.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 08:42:23 pm by StuartNaylor »

jammin

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2014, 04:12:22 am »
with the removal of openldap support, what happens to ldap ssh type logins, will this still work via the samba ldap ???

J. A. Calvo

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2014, 03:10:26 pm »
Yes, samba also implements LDAP protocol, so it will work all the same. We're just reducing the complexity of having two systems synchornized providing the same, leaving only one of them (the more complete in functionality, which is Samba).
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J. A. Calvo

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2014, 03:16:52 pm »
I'll put this out there too, and I know not everyone will agree with me on this, but I value the choice of which protocols are readily available, even if I don't use them all simultaneously.  I do currently use FTP and not Samba on my main Zentyal server.  "We think you should use this protocol, so this other one is going bye-bye" is a very Microsoft/Apple way of thinking that doesn't befit a Linux distro.  Making an open replacement for Active Directory and Exchange is a noble goal... Just don't lose sight of your values in the process.

The thing is that if you want to keep using FTP, you can (Zentyal is based on Ubuntu so the same things still apply):

https://help.ubuntu.com/14.04/serverguide/ftp-server.html

And also don't forget that we will be really happy if anyone from the community volunteers for maintaining the zentyal-ftp module for the forthcoming versions (the code won't be deleted, it's just moved to the contrib section of our Git repo instead of being in main). The thing is we need to focus our resources in providing this Active Directory and Exchange replacement, so we can't keep maintaining as much modules as we did in the past with the "all-in-one" focus.
Zentyal Server Lead Developer

StuartNaylor

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2014, 10:58:47 pm »
Personally I completely understand it. Get the engine and the chassis right and the bodywork can be done afterwards.

There is a lot riding on the 3.5 > 4.0 transition and I hope you guys get it right.

Anyone struggling with a straight ubuntu FTP install then post and I will see what I can do.


HyperionTech

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2014, 10:45:42 pm »
I really wish that L7 Development would be picked back up, I personally utilize Zentyal for it's Captive Portal coupled with the L7 Filter, it makes a wonderful Wireless Control System.

eckeagle

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2014, 09:03:53 pm »
Hi

I see in the roadmap you remove the user'corner for the problem of dependancy.

I will' like to known thisi mobules will adapt in the future version of zentyal? or include in the webmail interface?

I ask this question because i use it for configuring "mail retrieve the mail from external accounts" (fetchmail)



xpendable

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2014, 07:55:02 pm »
Personally I would like to see the L7 Filters be kept, I mean it's simply a module right now anyway. For the people that don't want to use it, simply don't install the module... right?

The L7 Filters have been picked back up for development by the ClearFoundation: http://l7-filter.clearfoundation.com/
The development on it is slow and the protocols are still yet to be re-vamped.

However the L7 Filter for some is an essential part of the OS as some of us like my self use this server as a gateway server for the rest of the devices on the network. QoS is an essential feature of any router these days and even the current implementations of DD-WRT/OpenWRT and Tomato router firmware replacements all still use these old L7 Filters.

So why not just leave the module in the package and allow the users to use it if they want to? It can't be that much more work to simply maintain the module with the new distro/zentyal versions is it?

EDIT:
Uh, just noticed Bandwidth Monitor module is being removed too, along with User Corner & Captive Portal. I don't use the last two my self, just don't really understand the need to be remove any of these modules really. These are all modules and are part of the reason that make zentyal great. You can install the modules that you want and not install the ones you don't. I was also disappointed when the Thin-Client module was removed back in v3.1 was it? That was a nice feature as well, seems like I'll be sticking with Zentyal v3.3 until the end of support for 12.04 LTS.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 08:13:48 pm by xpendable »

StuartNaylor

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2014, 08:59:44 pm »
I think the whole point of 3.5 wasn't to drop modules but purely to focus on a core and make it rock solid.

I don't think it might be the end for these modules but just at this time the Devs seem to be correctly focussing on a slimmer Zentyal.

I don't want them to add any further complexity until we get that stable core which I am sure is possible.

I guess its up to the community to maybe support some of the shavings.

I really wish Zentyal instead of trying to supply all modules or get the community to start development would choose a much easier route.

Make the webadmin interface customisable, with a menu and form editor. It is too close to 3.5 now but I really wish someone would carry this idea as many have mentioned it.
 



 

Escorpiom

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2014, 03:52:08 am »
Obviously I don't agree with removing stuff, it will make sense if you look at the bigger picture:
Ebox started out as an all-in-one Linux box and a lot of people (including me) jumped on that bandwagon.

Several years later, Zentyal takes another route, the "drop in replacement" for MS Small Business Server.
First I was trying to move away from MS solutions, but hey, now I have to be compatible again?
I never liked that route and I still don't like it.
Christian also didn't like it.
While Zentyal today still offers some of the goodies I need, I might eventually have to look for another distro if this MS stuff gets too serious.
There are a lot of other projects that do have a rich feature set, even supporting IPv6.   

Modules moved to contrib - You might as well declare them deceased. I haven't got the skills to maintain any of them and I think that goes for the bulk of our community.

Cheers.

   

Marcus' Rule:
Blanks & capitals = avoid it and you'll avoid problems...

snoopy1337

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2014, 01:30:01 pm »
Hi everybody,

just read about the upcoming Zentyal 3.5 based on 14.04 LTS.

A few months ago I tried out Zentyal 3.4 (13.10) and noticed the missing of Zarafa. I could understand that 3.4 couldn't include Zarafa as this only is compatible with Ubuntus LTS Versions. So I hoped Zarafa will be back with the next Zentyal which is based on the next LTS - Ubuntu.

Now I read that 3.5 will drop Zarafa, too and include OpenChange. Seriously??

I'm running several Small Business Sites with Zentyal + Zarafa, the most with Zentyal 3.3 .

This leads me to these questions:

1) Is Zarafa really completely dropped from Zentyal and will never come back?
2) Or could one choose between Zarafa and OpenChange?
3) If there is no choose: Does OpenChange have the same features as Zarafa?
4) If there is no choose: Will there be a "How - To Migrate Zarafa Mailboxes/Calendars/Contacts/Users a.s.o. to OpenChange?"

I'm really not lucky with these trends and I seriously think about completely dropping Zentyal as it drops (for me) one of the best modules...

Greetings


robb

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2014, 05:38:19 pm »
1) Yes, Zarafa is dropped completely
2) No, as of 3.4 there is no option to choose Zarafa anymore.
3) _Theoreticly_ OpenChange has more features than Zarafa and there is no extra license fee for outlook connectors since OpenChange natively supports the MAPI protocol.
4) We would love to see a documented migration path for Zarafa to OpenChange. I hope the devs in Zaragoza have the time to make a solid howto and/or migration script for this.

IMO the biggest catch is that openchange just isn't stable yet. Although they are working very hard on OpenChange development, I really think it is too soon to drop Zarafa, but that's just my opinion.

StuartNaylor

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Re: Zentyal 3.5 Roadmap announced (some modules moved to Contrib)
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2014, 06:00:35 pm »
I really like the idea of Openchange and I don't actually see this as a M$ solution.

Windows is still totally dominant as a desktop, which finally is being chipped away.
I have argued this before and that one line was the whole crux of the matter.

That dominance for many dictated the need for M$ servers if you wanted AD and group policy control.
Deliberately after XP UAC and batch script permission elevation needs made windows clients windows server junkies.

Christian was brilliant with networks but got rather upset when I called him a hobbyist.
He also used the Home version as his desktop in conjunction with Zentyal, which apart from licensing issues I just wouldn't be able to get away with it with the nature of my clients.
Its not me but my clients would of definitely viewed Windows Home in there business as unprofessional, irrespective of being right or wrong.

I used Zentyal with XP and a NT4 style samba domain then M$ started to deliberately kill that and force Active Directory.
That is why we had the biggerst IT European antitrust case ever http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case

Why some people still argue there wasn't and isn't a need to provide Opensource interoperable server systems to allow a toehold in the desktop dominance of Microsoft is beyond me.

Generally we had become M$ junkies and MSSQL, Exchange and Windows Server started to be an exclusive party.

I never understood the mindset because the way things where set out Microsoft was deliberately excluding non Microsoft technologies.

Samba4 is the only Opensource interoperable system that will allow this. We have the whole 3.0 series with a myriad of error's surrounding S4Sync because there is not direct translation between the two.

Then the community went through a stage of deliberate miss-information, deliberate denial and a refusal to discuss the problems openly.

Without doubt it was ill advised, detrimental to the project and extremely hobbyist, but that is just my opinion.

Samba4 is the only seamless solution for authentication and interoperability in current heterogeneous IT desktop environs.

So S4Sync got dropped and the potential bad design of two LDAP's has been rectified and we move into another LTS.

The whole BETA nature of Samba4 and its implementation took up the complete life-cycle of Ubuntu 12.04  LTS.

I think Samba has bedded down into a stable and secure product and generally its on its way to being a success.

Openchange which is also another huge undertaking has me worried purely because it is another BETA and if I have to wait to 16.04, I don't have to say anything...

Openchange and High Availibillity should be modules of Zentyal, which in essence they are. Many stipulations and needs are creeping in to the base system to accommodate the previous two and that shouldn't be the case.

I agree with Escorpiom "(some modules moved to Contrib)" who wants to be bothered with the upkeep and packaging.

I can't understand for the life in me when this has been proposed time and time again by not just me, we have so much reticence to making simple customizations to Zentyal.
Why we don't have a simple menu and form editor in Zentyal so that community scripts and modules can really take off without the need for packaging is beyond me.

Actually I fear the rationale is purely short sighted control with a belief that things need to always be branded with the Zentyal branding. I am suprised we don't see logo's 'Powered by' :)

Also going back to the all-in-one Linux box why did they kill the 2.0 series?

The 2.0 series was perfect for Linux only solutions which are still very valid.
We will have a 4.0 series that is based on M$ directory services on an open platform.

The 3.0 series where Zentyal totally ignored its community and users irrespective of which camp the sat in and continued blindly with 3.0

Its been really strange as my search for the M$ replacement because of my own dislikes to EOL and forced obsolescence.
Being bullied into adoption and dropping of technologies on a whim and having to deal with this omnipotent, god like entity provider of all IT.

The strange bit is that actually Zentyal are probably worse than M$ not just in the products but the manner they employ them and treat there users.

PS I was writing this before Robb posted, the Openchange Beta is a huge problem on an already battered and bruised community.


 
 

 
 
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 06:07:05 pm by StuartNaylor »