Author Topic: community vs commercial version  (Read 16096 times)

noriel

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community vs commercial version
« on: March 19, 2014, 06:02:56 am »
what is the difference between community and commercial version ? and the limitations?

 Im newbie and want to try zentyal community(free) as replacement to our server2008r2. [PDC/AD]

please advise me. thanks




robb

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 08:31:37 am »
For commercial inquiries you can contact Zentyal sales at http://www.zentyal.com/contact-sales/
To find out which commercial version is best suited for your situation please visit http://www.zentyal.com/which-edition-is-for-me/
For a brief overview of the commercial versions you can visit http://www.zentyal.com/smb-editions/

The biggest difference between community and commercial version is stability. Community version has bleeding edge technology and uses the latest available Ubuntu version (at the time of development freeze of a Zentyal version) This means that a community version is still subject of bugs that need ironing out.
A commercial version is based on the latest Ubuntu LTS version and periodically will receive 'service packs' to get updated with features that already are available in the community version.
My personal opinion is that this also means that you take a big risk using the latest Zentyal community version in a production environment. Of course you can choose to use an older version of Zentyal community edition in production (like 3.2, 3.0 or even 2.2)
Besides the software difference the commercial version adds several extra (non opensource) cloud services that will ease your tasks as a systems administrator. You can always try the commercial version for 1 month for free, but be aware that commercial and community version are NOT compatible and you will need to reinstall when you change from commercial to community and vice versa.

noriel

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 08:42:03 am »
thank you sir robb

followup question.

I'll be using the Community version, I'll take the risk about it..

like I said, we have server2008r2, and I want to replace this with Zentyal.. is it a good idea? can Zentyal do what W2008R2 can? PDC+AD+FileSharing?

Current set-up === PDC+AD+FileServer is WServer2008R2 --- Internet/Firewall is Untangle (free)

thanks again


we have 5 computer lab with 40pc each lab.

we have more than 300 users(students)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 08:53:21 am by noriel »

robb

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 09:02:59 am »
_In theory_ Zentyal can do whatever Windows 2008R2 can do.
But there are some 'buts' to consider:
- Nested OU's are not (yet) supported in Zentyal. And with that GPO's are very limited (understatement)
- If you also intend to use the Exchange replacement, be aware that Openchange still is in HEAVY development.

Further you might run into problems if you need to separate all the labs. For instance separate DHCP scopes on Virtual interfaces. You will have to check if your version of Zentyal allows to create a scope for a Virtual interface. If not, you will have to add a network card for each subnet you want to create. 

StuartNaylor

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 09:18:42 am »
- Nested OU's are not (yet) supported in Zentyal. And with that GPO's are very limited (understatement)

Nested OU's are not supported not sure what is limited with the GPO's.

Openchange is very fresh and agree.

thorsten

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 10:00:36 am »
Hi Noriel,

besides it is communicated and it is known the the community edition is less stable and less supported than the commerial edition, my point of view is different:

I always prefer not to buy the cat in a bag. Therefere I make my mind on what I can test, use, see and feel. That´s simply the community edition. Base on my experience, I would never ever buy nor recommand the Zentyal commercial product in a productive environment. Concluded from my experiences on the community edition, I fear it will be too buggy and unstable. I am sorry, and I know that this conculsion may be wrong as it is based on the knowledge of a different product. Keep in mind we are talking about two different products.

But I am sorry, people tend to think in brands. And what I can test makes my mind on the brand "Zentyal". It may be wrong and my opinion may be too simple, but if I have problems with an Audi A3 I would not event ask for an Audi A8 ... .

In my opinion the Zentyal marketing approach is wrong - make test product like the community edition as stable as possible and convince adminstrators and dessision makes with the brand. I mean look at the market, who will / may use Zentyal or ClearOS linux servers as an MS Server / Exchange replacement. SOHOs, e.g. startups facilitating a little / no IT department. Those people can / will not afford any man power on their IT infrastructure.

On the other hand - in quite a lot of weak moments - I think about buying the commercial edition for my home environment: as a revenge! Entiteld with support I would make the support people run as fast as possible to solve my problems ... but these moments are short .... and I clam down quite fast ...  ;D

But back from marketing to the fact. Community editions are always buggy, hard to install and problematic. I remember the trouple of 2.2. making network bridges for KVM or 3.0 ...and recently I do not manage to even clean install 3.3 or 3.4 on a dedicated hardware do the updates and integrate to my 3.0 domain in order to transfer (mail / data) accounts for a big migration ....

If you try out a community edition wait at least for 6 month after release and the worstes problems are solved or - as robb pointed out - us an older version. Anyway - such versions are nice for an home enthusiast like me with strong will, nerves, patience and a hand for linux ...


@ robb and Zentyal stuff - please excuese my opinion. I will continue to use Zentyal in my home environment  8)


Best regards
Thorsten
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 10:08:18 am by thorsten »

StuartNaylor

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 10:10:48 am »
Actually nested OU's might be capable just haven't tried creating one.

To be honest I am slightly bemused by the Zentyal GPO editor.
I understand the user manager as it allows creation for non M$

3.4 sounds very much like it would do the job for you. I would at least give it an evaluation even though it is also very fresh.

When it comes to GPO's and this is my bemusement create them and link them in Zentyal but edit the details with M$ RSAT to your hearts content.

When it comes to nested OU's post on the forum if you managed to create them and in the Zentyal interface or RSAT.

I was going to post and it informed that Thorsten had posted.

Give it a go, 3.4 seems like a step in the right direction.
There are some funny choices though and we will have to see if the file sharing has been sorted.

It is to early with 3.4 for me to comment and to some degree I have to agree with Thorsten as I have been very vocal about the manner of marketing.
I can understand why he says this as with previous versions it didn't just do what it said on the tin. What that does generally to confidence levels isn't good and for that reason alone its been a marketing disaster.

3.4 is 4 days old so see what you think I don't think anyone can give a complete review yet.

Its good Thorsten that you have the honesty and bravery to say.
I think much feedback needs to be given as this edging their bets on employment with dual ldaps and others makes me believe it is prone to be stuck in no mans land.
I think many are like Thorsten and it perplexes me, the thought path of the state of community releases.
There is a free 30 day of the professional and to my confusion you can not upgrade, so there must be major differences?!?

Anyway 3.4 is new, suck it and see, if you pardon the phrase. :)
 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 10:19:25 am by StuartNaylor »

noriel

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 10:21:19 am »
- Nested OU's are not (yet) supported in Zentyal. And with that GPO's are very limited (understatement)
- If you also intend to use the Exchange replacement, be aware that Openchange still is in HEAVY development.

~~~no NESTED OU. Limited GPO is ok for me.
~~~Im not using Openchange.

~~all PC in all lab is not using DHCP. all static/manual IP

please see the attachment. that's my current set up. and I want to replace the untangle and server2008r2 with Zentyal free

thanks all :)

noriel

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 10:29:08 am »
Hi Noriel,

besides it is communicated and it is known the the community edition is less stable and less supported than the commerial edition, my point of view is different:

I always prefer not to buy the cat in a bag. Therefere I make my mind on what I can test, use, see and feel. That´s simply the community edition. Base on my experience, I would never ever buy nor recommand the Zentyal commercial product in a productive environment. Concluded from my experiences on the community edition, I fear it will be too buggy and unstable. I am sorry, and I know that this conculsion may be wrong as it is based on the knowledge of a different product. Keep in mind we are talking about two different products.

But I am sorry, people tend to think in brands. And what I can test makes my mind on the brand "Zentyal". It may be wrong and my opinion may be too simple, but if I have problems with an Audi A3 I would not event ask for an Audi A8 ... .

In my opinion the Zentyal marketing approach is wrong - make test product like the community edition as stable as possible and convince adminstrators and dessision makes with the brand. I mean look at the market, who will / may use Zentyal or ClearOS linux servers as an MS Server / Exchange replacement. SOHOs, e.g. startups facilitating a little / no IT department. Those people can / will not afford any man power on their IT infrastructure.

On the other hand - in quite a lot of weak moments - I think about buying the commercial edition for my home environment: as a revenge! Entiteld with support I would make the support people run as fast as possible to solve my problems ... but these moments are short .... and I clam down quite fast ...  ;D

But back from marketing to the fact. Community editions are always buggy, hard to install and problematic. I remember the trouple of 2.2. making network bridges for KVM or 3.0 ...and recently I do not manage to even clean install 3.3 or 3.4 on a dedicated hardware do the updates and integrate to my 3.0 domain in order to transfer (mail / data) accounts for a big migration ....

If you try out a community edition wait at least for 6 month after release and the worstes problems are solved or - as robb pointed out - us an older version. Anyway - such versions are nice for an home enthusiast like me with strong will, nerves, patience and a hand for linux ...


@ robb and Zentyal stuff - please excuese my opinion. I will continue to use Zentyal in my home environment  8)


Best regards
Thorsten

seems like your not happy about your zentyal experience in general. Am I right?

So what will you recommend as alternative to zentyal that will do the job as required/as replacement to my current setup ?

if its not allowed to mention other brand here, please privatemessage me. thank you

StuartNaylor

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 10:37:15 am »
Noriel, one thing about Zentyal is that it is exceptionally quick to set up.

Download and try only you will be able to evaluate your own systems and its capability.


noriel

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 10:54:49 am »
thanks all.

300-500 user is not a problem (major) in community version? it can handle the number of users just fair enough?

robb

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 11:11:20 am »
the number of LDAP entries is by default (OpenLDAP default) limited to 500. If you search these forums you will probably find the following post: https://forum.zentyal.org/index.php/topic,20608.msg79717.html#msg79717
I just checked my Zentyal 3.2 server and it seems the OpenLDAP limit is already handled and set to unlimited:
Quote
olcLimits: {0}dn="cn=subdomain,dc=domain,dc=tld" time.soft=unlimited time.hard=unlimited size.soft=unlimited size.hard=unlimited

noriel

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 12:03:25 pm »
can I ask different question please..

I install and configure zentyal in virtual box.

when I try joining my win7virtual in my zentyal domain.. it says "bad username/password" but Im sure that all details is correct. time is sync and IP is set properly and both are able to communicate

I log to my zentyal.
username: noriel
password: 123456789

then I go to

>general settings > change admin password>

username : noriel
currentpassword: 123456789
newpassword: 963258741
confirmpassword: 96325871

>>change

ERROR!!!!!! ===== INCORRECT CURRENT PASSWORD!!!

why???



thorsten

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 01:40:54 pm »

seems like your not happy about your zentyal experience in general. Am I right?

So what will you recommend as alternative to zentyal that will do the job as required/as replacement to my current setup ?

if its not allowed to mention other brand here, please privatemessage me. thank you

Noriel,

it is a kind of hate-love between zentyal and me, maybe because I sometimes like to put some handcraft work on systems, at least, when I am private. No I can not really recommand another system, but if you speak german, I can copy / e-mail an review articel of germans famous c´t computer magazine on different free linux server systems. Zentyal is included in that article, but it is not much more than a footprint. Just send my your e-mail by PN and I will scancopymail the article to you.

In addition, no, I do not think there is free small business linux server I would thurst at the moment do to the fact that samba4 and its AD features are young, too. Possible choices are Amahi, ClearOS, IPFire, SME-Server and Zentyal.

Quite popular here in Germany is ClearOS due to its recommandations in the previous quoted c´t magazine. It was more than once provided on related CDs. Also there is no difference between the free and the commecial product, however, you need to  buy the non-free parts of the server as "apps". The most comprehensive product seems to be Zentyal followed by SME Server and / or ClearOS.


I hope this helps,
best regards
Thorsten

thorsten

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Re: community vs commercial version
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 01:53:31 pm »

There is a free 30 day of the professional and to my confusion you can not upgrade, so there must be major differences?!?


Hi Stuart,

yes, but this is one personal point, I guess this is similar to other (IT) people like me who are willing to try steps in a new or different world: I do not have time for such experiments during my business hours, so I need to try out at home. But 30 days are by far not enought to do so - I do not even spend 5 minutes per day on my home server.... there are just peaks of time I may spend ... This option is not suitable for me to decide if I would recommand or use the commercial version of Zentyal, so I do not even try.

In an alternative I may ask for a project budget to check Zentyal commercial version during office hours - but I do not know how to anwers the following sponsors question:

Is there a reason to check such a product beyound your personal interst?

There would be just one acceptable answer: The business case is ... or in other words Zentyal is less expensive / more suitable / requires less administrative effords / fits our requirements etc ... Believe me, you do not want to prepare the related documents without having a really good feeling that such a project will fly....

Best regards
Thorsten