Author Topic: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa  (Read 7991 times)

jkerihuel

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Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« on: January 23, 2014, 08:08:09 pm »
Good evening all,

With our forthcoming Zentyal Server 3.4 community edition based on Ubuntu 13.10 Saucy, we have been working on testing and upgrading all our modules. As for now, Zarafa is one of the remaining module that is not working.

Unfortunately, Zarafa does not provide packages for Ubuntu 13.10 Saucy. We have tried to build the open source edition on our own, but we are hitting compilation issues that blocks the process and prevent from moving further. We have therefore decided to contact the Zarafa team and see if they are willing to provide a package for Ubuntu 13.10 Saucy.

If they don't, we will not be able to include this package in Zentyal 3.4 Server.

I will in any case keep you posted on the evolution of the situation.

Br,
Julien.
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robb

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2014, 09:01:25 pm »
This shows going for non LTS is a BAD idea.
You do realize you are entering a VERY slippery road with a pre beta solution like Openchange instead of a full featured and stable Zarafa?

/edit: edited out unnecessary speculation.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 12:48:02 pm by robb »

christian

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2014, 09:21:56 pm »
Intentional or not, it doesn't come as a big surprise  ;)
Well... Zarafa builds packages for LTS only... like previously Zentyal BTW thus it was fully expected not to get any Zarafa package for 13.10 isn't it?

This said, for those wiling to keep Zarafa, it can still be compiled on 13.10 as far as I understand.

J. A. Calvo

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2014, 06:50:55 pm »
This said, for those wiling to keep Zarafa, it can still be compiled on 13.10 as far as I understand.

No, that's the problem indeed. Zarafa seems to not compile on 13.10 (at least without modifying the source code). Of course if anyone wants to provide some patch or working packaging that could be very welcome :)
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christian

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2014, 07:01:19 pm »
No, that's the problem indeed. Zarafa seems to not compile on 13.10 (at least without modifying the source code).

Clearer. This was not clear reading the initial post that was stating "Zarafa does not provide package"...
So idea would be, if Zarafa is not dropped, to wait for Zarafa community from where I would not be surprised to see some customization in order to make it compatible with 13.10
But this will not come from Zarafa team, for sure  ;)

At least, if Zarafa is dropped, it will clarify Zentyal portfolio  8) but are you yet ready for this ?

J. A. Calvo

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2014, 10:01:02 pm »
Well, in the initial post Julien said clearly: "We have tried to build the open source edition on our own, but we are hitting compilation issues that blocks the process and prevent from moving further."

No problem with the misunderstanding anyway. Also I want to remind you that Zarafa will still be supported in our LTS/Commercial version which is Zentyal 3.2.
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spiral

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 06:12:56 am »
What is gained by upgrading to Ubuntu server 13.10?  Is it just for the sake of being current?

jkerihuel

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 10:19:56 am »
What is gained by upgrading to Ubuntu server 13.10?  Is it just for the sake of being current?

Reduce the upgrade gap and inconsistencies across two Ubuntu LTS.

Br,
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robb

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2014, 05:42:13 pm »
I can't express enough that the trade off for a _server_ solution of leaving the LTS version of Ubuntu for a bleeding edge version, that is only supported for 9 months, should never weigh as much as the 'smaller gap' between versions.
The point is that the commercial version _does_ stay on LTS so the migration gap must be taken anyway. Going for a less long supported version just does not make any sense.

christian

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2014, 06:45:27 pm »
Robb,

This has clearly pros & cons.

If goal is to deploy something "live", I mean in prod, community or commercial doesn't matter and you are perfectly right, not deploying LTS or at least thinking that you will deploy every 3 or 9 months doesn't make sense but...
- lot of users are running Ubuntu without any support from Canonical or whoever. Thus LTS or not doesn't matter for such users. What is critical here is more to deploy something stable that you don't have to reinstall every year or even more often.
- not being obliged to wait for the next LTS when the last release solves, e.g. Ubuntu hardware support is a clear added value.
- The bet here seems to be that if you are ready with the last release just before next LTS, then step to LTS will be smaller. Doesn't mean you have to migrate if you run it in prod isn't it ?

J. A. Calvo

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2014, 06:55:30 pm »
- The bet here seems to be that if you are ready with the last release just before next LTS, then step to LTS will be smaller. Doesn't mean you have to migrate if you run it in prod isn't it ?

That's exactly the point, if you are happy with a LTS version like 3.2 there is no reason to upgrade. But the great advantage of Zentyal going step by step through all the Ubuntu releases is to provide *better* LTS releases (and Zentyal commercial versions therefore). The reason is simple: the changes from one LTS to another are too big, and if we have to introduce all of them together and in the last moment the quality of the final product is not going to be optional, introducing them as soon as possible not only makes the task easier, but also allows much more time to test those changes and fix any problem they may cause in Zentyal.

I understand that this non-LTS releases issue may be concerning for some of you, but I think you should trust us when we say that this is better for everybody, seriously, we are really convinced about that. And I'm sure you'll see the benefits in the mid term.
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ian

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2014, 12:00:11 pm »
Hello,

Is it not better to solve the tickets for the different versions of Zentyal ?

I still use release 1.4.9 in our elementery school, it is a file and printserver and it works perfect.

I like to upgrade to release 3.2.6 but there are still a lot of problems so it is not possible to restore the configuration, realy needed in case of a diasaster and a reinstall of the server.

Zentyal is a fantastic product, but there must be more attention of the stability of the product and relayable in production mode so it means that the most critical problems must be solved before devlopping a new release.

Upgrading is not Always easy because of changing structures in releases, it is verry important to have a good restore and upgrade component for the configuration other whyse the whole network with clients must be redone, restoring data is not a big problem. We have more than 50 client pc's in our network, so redone the configuration by an upgrade is  a lot of work.

So in the future give a lot of attention on resolving of the impotant bugs, and have in mind that configuration restore to an upgraded server is verry important. Keep the LTS versions as a base every 9 months doing an upgrade in a prduction environment is not the goal.

Thanks and keep Zentyal running in the best conditions.

Best regards,
Ian


christian

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2014, 01:08:47 pm »
Ian,

I'm totally and fully in line with your points. Stability and reliability are the two main points, far before even features. Smoothness in upgrade process is another critical point. So far Zentyal doesn't achieve any of these thus if it matters for you, you have to find one version fitting 100% of your needs and decide to never update. This is what you did with 1.4 and what I do with 2.2

On the other hand, I do understand that there is a need for additional features from time to time and some pressure from potential customers (well, rather potential community users) asking for the very last tool and pushing because another similar product is able to provide something that is missing on Zentyal side  ::)  There is a real competition here  ;)

Because of these, the idea that is to align Zentyal development with Ubuntu release makes some sense assuming, if looking for stability, you decide no to follow this for your servers in prod.
That, to me, where the drawback is: testing server on testbed, meaning not in prod as very little added value because you may not notice some problems and will not be able to measure if this new release fits your expectations in a day to day activity. This is where I'm in line with Robb but I'm afraid there is no middle way. I would say that current release policy will mainly benefit to Zentyal customers and also to community users who are able to resist to the very last release announcement but will also minimize efficiency of feedbacks from community.

hgeorge123

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2014, 05:21:07 am »
They should try to have two versions as does having ubuntu lts version that will have a number of defined functions and will only have updates to fix bugs and security, another version to test it with new versions of packages that serve for the coming lts versions. As is currently the Community version is for testing virtually packages not think it's enough time in three months to say that a distribution as zentyal this 100% and something I've seen is that zentyal in solving problems is very slow then get new versions of zentyal not think it's the solution

robb

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Re: Zentyal Server 3.4 and Zarafa
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 11:26:49 pm »
Daily builds of Zentyal 3.4 installer are available for download.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/zentyal/files/Incoming/