Author Topic: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!  (Read 15985 times)

kenamb

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2013, 01:14:19 pm »
Can't locate EBox/Util/Random.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at dump-users-from-backup.1 line 27, <DATA> line 134.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at dump-users-from-backup.1 line 27, <DATA> line 134.

keep gettig this error everytime i try and export the users to csv

graylion

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 10:15:26 am »
If you want groupware functionality it actually isn't half bad, but I am really disappointed in Zentyal overall:

  • - no upgrade path to 3.0
  • - loud noises and no followup on Zentyal Desktop
  • - snarky followup on suggestions.

nardial

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 08:43:04 am »
@bufke
I would really appreciate a guide, because I feel some kind of stuck now.
It is absolutely impossible to migrate machines the zentyal way, users and management would not accept that.

bufke

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2013, 10:31:15 pm »
I work at a school and will wait till summer break as I think this process is dangerous.

In a proof of concept I was able to get a hacky solution together. I don't have it all documented well and it's a temporary solution. My plan is to migrate what I can including passwords for simple samba and ldap authentication (but not kerberos). Then give people a deadline to reset their password to make kerberos work too. After that deadline I'll remove my hacks which include changes to zentyal ldap settings which are probably not upgrade safe.

If you want to work on it you could email me at david at burkesoftware dot com. I do have python scripts that do migrate passwords and other user data. Might be good to have you test them out yourself in a non production environment of course.

I don't have decent enough notes to publish a guide right now. What exactly are you looking to migrate? Passwords? How do your clients connect? A big issue with me is I use pam_ldap to authenticate and they changed a lot of stuff about ldap in 3.0. Even the port is different. If you are using Windows clients I suspect it would be much easier but I haven't tested this.

christian

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2013, 07:43:34 am »
I'm no longer recommending Zentyal as a reasonable alternative to AD though. Hope to have a real migration guide for you all soon. I don't use Zarafa though so you are on your own with that. Good to know I should never consider it.

The point is that 3.0, thanks, kind of, to Samba 4, better emulates AD (because Samba 3 was not supporting GPO).
Second point is that you do not really look at AD alternative, given what you describe (PAM and basic LDAP support). You even don't use Zarafa  :P

This being said, I'm totally in line with your comment  :)
 => not providing standard LDAP back-end supporting anonymous search on port 389 is really painful for those having already deployed their infrastructure

At least they could have offer different LDAP ports "a la AD") or use 390 as the internal LDAP port  ::)

Anyway, I suppose this will change with the next versions as supporting multiple LDAP servers, multiple DNS etc is also painful for Zentyal team. My fears is that might not be toward more openness but rather toward more "Windows like" landscape.

One question however: as 2.2 fits your needs, why would you need to migrate toward 3.0 ?

bufke

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2013, 11:02:50 pm »
Quote
One question however: as 2.2 fits your needs, why would you need to migrate toward 3.0 ?

Because I hope my client will still exist after Ubuntu 10.04 support ends.

A windows like landscape is fine with me if it works. Emulate Windows on both server and client. Why not? pam_ldap is a pain to set up. Kerberos is useful. Playing around with it myself I'm sure it is a pain for the Zentyal team. I think more could have been done though.

christian

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 05:38:49 am »
Quote
One question however: as 2.2 fits your needs, why would you need to migrate toward 3.0 ?

Because I hope my client will still exist after Ubuntu 10.04 support ends.

So you are not in a hurry then  :) Zentyal is based on LTS, L standing for Long, meaning Ubuntu will support it till 2015 and Zentyal 2.2 will be supported for more than one year (2014)

Quote
A windows like landscape is fine with me if it works. Emulate Windows on both server and client. Why not? pam_ldap is a pain to set up. Kerberos is useful. Playing around with it myself I'm sure it is a pain for the Zentyal team. I think more could have been done though.

I really don't understand what "emulating Windows on both server and client" could mean. If you can elaborate on this, it would be very interesting.
Tell me too why you feel PAM to be painful. If you compare to Kerberos, PAM is very very easy  ;)

Sam Graf

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2013, 02:22:52 am »
Zentyal is based on LTS, L standing for Long, meaning Ubuntu will support it till 2015 and Zentyal 2.2 will be supported for more than one year (2014)

The unspoken assumption here is that the unseen, unknown 3.2 justifies not being in a "hurry." :-\

christian

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2013, 08:07:39 am »
I do not try to justify anything but express my own personal view that is, by no mean, the absolute true.

There is potentially hundreds of reason for this user to migrate ASAP. This I don't know.
If what triggers migration asap is lack of support from Ubuntu, I'm pretty confident that my sentence makes sense: Canonical will support Ubuntu 10.04 till 2015.

On top of this, I assumed this user is using community edition. So far so good (I'm using this edition too  ;)) but then there is just NO commitment in term of support from Zentyal. So this is not the Zentyal roadmap in term of support that is pushing for migration in a hurry.

Again, perhaps some other reason that I don't know, reason why I was asking "why do you want to migrate?"

As you ask and in order to not let any unspoken assumption grow, I'll try to be even more explicit, even if some may take it the wrong way (I hope they will not  :-[):

1 - there is an obvious - at least to me - trend to always target the very last version or release of every piece of software, from BIOS to end-user application just because this is the new version, quite often without looking at features. When feature are similar or only with bug fix or improvement, I can understand. Unfortunately, there is a huge gap between Zentyal 2.2 and 3.0.  Yes, you're right, from end-user standpoint, this is not that huge (aside potentially SSO) but from admin standpoint, you may know what I mean.
So migration is not easy and 3.0 is not yet as stable as 2.2.  If you want to go there, from 2.2, relying only on community support, you either do it because you want to give a try (excellent good reason) or because there are some features you do need.  Again, therefore my earlier question  8)

2 - the second aspect will be, I know already, more controversial here but I've spent too much time refraining myself to write it many times, and your post triggers it today: I've the very very strong feeling that main goal, for a lot of Zentyal users, is to benefit from Zentyal because this is the free alternative to Windows domain. These users are not going to support Zentyal as a company buying some official support. Most of them even do not support community by providing help, feedback or support to other community members (I know this behaviour is not specific to Zentyal community) but on the other hand, they do push for "migration asap", "support commitment" and other bells and whistles for free. Here again, not all but a lot do even not look at features. They just want to migrate for the very last version with free "support" and expect to put enough pressure on Zentyal with no business perspective behind. My expectation is that those using community edition and hoping Zentyal to bring something to them should at least use Zentyal "community" in different ways that could be development, community support, clear explanation of users cases, projects or or even needs in term of feature, not needs in term of "I need to migrate ASAP, please Zentyal help !"

3 - last but not least, yes you're right I expect next Zentyal version to fit better market needs. To me, 3.0 missed its target. First I'm not convinced (perhaps I'm wrong) that GPO support is the first must for SMBs. Second, GPO with lack of OU support in the back-end (you know the secondary LDAP server emulating AD  ;) ) is pretty useless. So I'm back to my question in term of feature "what is the main trigger from 3.0 migration ?"  New comer will of course install 3.0  I'm fine with this. My point is this "migration" step. Is it that critical that it must be done in a hurry ? Can't you wait for next version that will, from technical standpoint, make more sense or do you need something right now?  If your answer is SSO, fine, that's a good reason. Measure pros and cons and migrate once your decision is made. If this is for support while using community edition, I'm back to my previous answer:
"so you're not in a hurry  ;)"

I know such long post is not expected here, sorry for this, but it was better, at least for me, to write it once  :-[
I will not comment it further  ;)

EDIT: some (too many) typos :-(
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 01:15:35 pm by christian »

Sam Graf

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2013, 01:11:43 pm »
Since I have also mentioned that users could prefer 2.2 over 3.0 I'm not questioning the idea of sticking with a working server. I was just thinking a couple of things (keeping in mind what I just said):
  • From my point of view (meaning from the point of view of my skill set), complex migrations have never been easy. A main reason why I stopped using eBox's integration with eGroupware was because I could not successfully migrate everything between versions. The migration from 2.2 to 3.0 isn't unique in that sense, from my point of view.
  • It's not terribly uncommon for people who elect to use Ubuntu to follow the Ubuntu LTS release cycle even for servers. The perception (and maybe the reality, at least in terms of specific packages or kernels) is that Canonical has reason for releasing a new version of its LTS bundle (beyond trying to distinguish itself from "outdated" Debian stable). Zentyal itself takes that approach and always has. People with other priorities likely use something other than Ubuntu. So at this point in the history of 12.04 I wouldn't characterize migration attempts as being in a hurry among Ubuntu users. My sense is that many people will think themselves behind if they have not yet migrated to that version of Zentyal using 12.04.
That said, I appreciate especially your comments in point 2. Some things there that warrant additional discussion, in my opinion.

bufke

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 08:14:39 pm »
Quote
I really don't understand what "emulating Windows on both server and client" could mean. If you can elaborate on this, it would be very interesting.
Tell me too why you feel PAM to be painful. If you compare to Kerberos, PAM is very very easy 

The "Windows" way is Active Directory. Samba4 provides an Active Directory service.

PAM = Pluggable Authentication Module. Whether you use winbind (samba) or local authentication you are using PAM. pam_ldap I found to be painful to set up. You can read about my experiences in on my blog if you are interested. http://davidmburke.com/2012/04/26/ubuntu-12-04-deployment-with-active-directory/

Hopefully I'll be getting some government funding (I work for a school in America) to purchase Zentyal Support. My main interest in Zentyal is it's free as in freedom. Unlike Active Directory I could very easily replicate one client's set up without thinking about license fees. For just one client, I've found the cost of Zentyal vastly higher than Active Directory.

Here is my WIP migration script. It's unfinished and you should assume it will break everything and kill your dog. https://gist.github.com/bufke/4490120 The idea is to get the hashes out of Zentyal 2.2 and insert them in 3.0 in Samba LDAP and OpenLDAP. It supports only simple authentication not kerberos. It also will ensure ID's match which is very important.

christian

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 09:18:37 pm »
The "Windows" way is Active Directory. Samba4 provides an Active Directory service.

 is it :'( :'(  or  :D :D ?

I don't know but I've to admit that Microsoft is really the best in the marketing domain.

Joke aside, I don't want to fight to determine if Windows way = AD = Samba4. You're probably right with:
"Samba 4 = Windows way" (of course) and wrong, from my standpoint, thinking that this is because of AD.

AD is no more almost than LDAP server.
This LDAP server as some constraints if you compare to other conventional (and open) LDAP servers because it has been designed, as LDAP server, to server one  specific application that is "Windows Domain".
Windows way is therefore much more than AD and Windows domain will not work without DNS, Kerberos, SMB...

BTW, Samba cornerstone is SMB, not AD.

In the meantime, I read a bit of your blog (thank you for the link) and I understand now better your position and why pam_ldap is not for you.
Do not take it the wrong way, there is no criticism in my comment  ;)
PAM alone to authenticate against LDAP (akak pam_ldap) is not enough. If you don't understand that nss is mandatory, then you will never succeed. What is missing in Linux for Windows users and admins is this abstraction layer that is hiding everything (that's what I call the Windows way  :P) and that would configure pam_ldap and NSS on your behalf.
But even with such tool I don't think it would feet your needs because your real target should rather be kerberos deployment (which doesn't fit nicely with PAM  :-\)

Quote
My main interest in Zentyal is it's free as in freedom. Unlike Active Directory I could very easily replicate one client's set up without thinking about license fees. For just one client, I've found the cost of Zentyal vastly higher than Active Directory.

 ::) ::)

MOSAiX

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Re: Migration guide from Zentyal 2.2 to Zentyal 3.0 published!
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2014, 10:54:46 am »
Sad, that this Guide is offline this quickly.
Is there an archive for older Guides?

Gopher

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MOSAiX

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